Vernal galaxy

Discussion in 'Star Trek - The Original & Animated Series' started by Falconer, Aug 25, 2021.

  1. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk Worf in the 23rd Century Premium Member

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    He's a human of Dutch descent.
     
  2. M'Sharak

    M'Sharak Definitely Herbert. Maybe. Moderator

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  3. 1001001

    1001001 Pull Up a Groove and Get Fabulous! Moderator

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  4. Vger23

    Vger23 Vice Admiral Admiral

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  5. publiusr

    publiusr Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I might be tempted to use vernal as “habitable” in that this part of X is free of radiation that keeps star systems from evolving life.

    I have seen very old paper holders that remind me of that folder. A prop? Or based on a real product? The precision handling device cart from FANTASTIC VOYAGE also made me wonder, in that I imagine warheads might need something similar…
     
  6. MAGolding

    MAGolding Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I have always wondered if there is a place named Gaard in the Netherlands. There is a place named Wytgaard there.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wytgaard

    What does that have to do with the topic of this thread?

    I note that in Star Trek transcripts the message Uhura relays is written as:

    So they interpreted the spoken word "comsol' as being "ComSol", short for Commander Sol".

    Of course what really counts is how it is written in the script.

    Hearing the mesage I always wonder what the signature was.

    "Council, Starfleet Command"?

    "Conseul, Starfleet Command"?

    "Consul, Starfleet Command"?

    "Console, Starfleet Command"?

    But today I tend to believe that the message was signed by Admiral Robert Comsol, who was the Starfeet ComSol ("Comander Sol Sector"). at the time.

    Which is sort of like imaginng that the vanguard of the Dutch battle feet is commanded by Admiral Van Gaard :hugegrin:
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2021
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  7. Boris Skrbic

    Boris Skrbic Commodore Commodore

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    I don’t have full access, but Comsol is an actual last name according to the search results. Could we find out if Roddenberry knew someone by that name, assuming it was him who introduced it into the story?
     
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  8. Henoch

    Henoch Rear Admiral Premium Member

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    Is this an equivalent to Maj. Major Major Major. :lol:
     
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  9. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Back in the first Gulf War, we actually had one of those, commenting on the proceedings on behalf of the defense forces...

    (Okay, only Majuri Majuri, but still.)

    We know there exists a Commander, Starfleet, which would be a nice match for the ComS part of the title if it's that. There's also "the CinC", who might be CINCKLIN or something, being "the" thanks to the context and not because he would be head of state cum military. But Starfleet might also be going through a phase or two, changing its organization to better prepare for the day when it can call itself "not military" with a straight face. I guess there's room for a Commander, Sol there as well. In charge of Earthships or something? The more Trek we get, the punier such a position begins to sound.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  10. Boris Skrbic

    Boris Skrbic Commodore Commodore

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    But why would Robert L.’s last name be abbreviated where Pike’s isn’t? Why would RL make Comsol a part of his signature? Why would “Commander, Sol…” be followed by “Commanding Officer”?
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2021
  11. M'Sharak

    M'Sharak Definitely Herbert. Maybe. Moderator

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    It's a suffix common to many place-names in Germanic-language regions. Spelling may vary (-gaard, gard, gart, gård, etc.) but they all essentially mean "yard" or "garden" -- a plot or defined area of land dedicated to a specific purpose. (Even the Norse "Asgard" simply denotes "realm of the Æs[ir] (gods)".)
     
  12. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    The text refers to "the ninth quadrant, beginning with Alpha Centauri and extending to the outer Pinial Galaxy limit." From that context, "Pinial Galaxy" cannot be a reference to the entire galaxy, because then the description is too vague -- extending from Alpha Centauri in which direction? The only way that makes sense as a descriptor of "the ninth quadrant" is if "Pinial" refers only to a specific region of the galaxy or a specific direction within it (in the same way that "vernal galaxy" probably refers to the part of the galaxy in the direction of the vernal point as seen from Earth, the point where the Sun crosses the celestial equator on the vernal equinox).


    The document contains so many typos, overtypings, and whited-out letters that I don't think it was retyped by a secretary or anyone. I think in that case the secretary's initials would be on the document, and they aren't.

    Although if "Pinial Galaxy" were a misreading of anything, it would probably be "spiral galaxy."


    Of course there's a galactic north and south, defined relative to the Earth's poles. I never said there wasn't, only that there's no up and down in space, no "top" and "bottom," because those terms are defined relative to the pull of a planet's gravity. So yes, you can absolutely have a northern or southern galaxy; it's the idea of a dorsal or ventral galaxy that's nonsense.


    The name "Robert L. Comsol" on the document was seen on Starbase 11, not on the Enterprise.
     
  13. Maurice

    Maurice Fact Trekker Premium Member

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    Which document? Did I miss a link?
     
  14. IMC Headquarters

    IMC Headquarters Fleet Captain Premium Member

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    Maybe "vernal" is Siri mis-hearing "infernal"?

    Nobody ever gets speech-recognition right.
     
  15. alchemist

    alchemist Captain Captain

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    Could still be an illusion. At what point did Mendez become an illusion?
     
  16. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    For the events to make any sense, it would appear the Talosian powers would have had to reach all the way to the Enterprise, months before the events - thus keeping Kirk from hearing the interstellar gossip on Pike's accident, either by directly making him deaf and blind to it, or then by manipulating Spock into sabotaging all comms to that effect. Basically, then, we can't be sure Kirk's old pal Mendez ever existed, or that Starbase 11 did.

    (Amusingly, the two guys Spock has to nerve-pinch in order to fake the orders to sail out clearly never existed. Or at least they very clearly cease to exist right after pinched!)

    Timo Saloniemi
     
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  17. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    We're talking about the original March 11, 1964 Star Trek Format document that contained the phrase "the outer Pinial Galaxy limit" in its "orders to Captain Robert M. April" on page 9.


    What's that got to do with anything? I thought we were talking about the confusion over what the creators of the episode intended "Comsol" to mean, whether it was a person's name or a title.
     
  18. IMC Headquarters

    IMC Headquarters Fleet Captain Premium Member

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    The Talosians originally planned to throw a number of illusory space babes at Kirk to delay him, but Spock gave them a more logical alternative.

    Head canon.
     
  19. Albertese

    Albertese Commodore Commodore

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    The name Comsol comes from the document Mendez shows Kirk about Enterprise under Pike with "Half-Vulcan Science Officer Spock." There's a whole signature from one Robert L. Comsol. The language of the Star Trek Format document is a tangent. Honestly, the discussion of what "Comsol" is supposed to be is itself a tangent from why the same document used the word "vernal."

    --Alex
     
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  20. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Yes, there are several ongoing subtopics and I responded to two of them separately. You're quoting my responses to two different posts about two different subtopics as if they were related, which they aren't.