Vernal galaxy

Discussion in 'Star Trek - The Original & Animated Series' started by Falconer, Aug 25, 2021.

  1. Falconer

    Falconer Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2019
    [​IMG]

    It’s a simple goof, right? I reckon they meant the ventral galaxy — down/south/negative on the Z-axis. :cool:
     
    publiusr likes this.
  2. Maurice

    Maurice Fact Trekker Premium Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2005
    Location:
    One ferry ride from Starfleet HQ
    Someone making props had a Farmer's Almanac and not a book on astronomy?
     
  3. Christmas Corps

    Christmas Corps Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2011
    Location:
    astral plane
    Vernal means "pertaining to spring." "Vernal galaxy" would mean literally the galaxy or part of the galaxy associated with springtime. Yeah, obviously someone just ate and regurgitated an astronomy lexicon (cf "vernal equinox").

    As to whether "ventral" taken to indicate a particular direction would make more sense than "vernal," it most certainly would not, since a specific direction in space can be inferred from the vernal (or March) equinox, namely such as the position vector of the center of the Earth relative to the center of the Sun when it occurs (or its opposite, if looking at things from an Earthbound perspective). If you want to read the terms in question as referring to a certain part of the Milky Way within some cone or half-space defined by some direction, such is the direction.
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2021
    Candy Canes of Qo'noS likes this.
  4. F. King Daniel

    F. King Daniel Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2008
    Location:
    King Daniel Beyond
    My guess is whoever made the sheet assumed Star Trek to be literally intergalactic, and "The Cage" was set in another galaxy. And anyone who knew otherwise likely realised the prop was done, would be visible for like a second and certainly wouldn't be examined by a bunch of ageing nerds 55 years later.

    Get a load of "Half Vulcan Science Officer Spock", Starfleet being shamelessly racist.
     
    Candy Canes of Qo'noS likes this.
  5. Candy Canes of Qo'noS

    Candy Canes of Qo'noS Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2017
    Location:
    Burning Hearts of Qo'nOs
    I like how Spock's rank isn't even listed but half-Vulcan is. Like he is the official 'Half-Vulcan' of the Enterprise.

    What really bothers me is the idea of Starfleet using a serif based font and then printing it on paper.
     
    dupersuper and Noname Given like this.
  6. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2001
    In astronomy, the vernal point is where the Sun crosses the celestial equator on the vernal (spring) equinox, and this is often used as an origin point in celestial coordinate systems. Maybe "vernal galaxy" was supposed to mean the part of the galaxy in that direction. Though how that works with "third quadrant" is beyond me. I think they were just throwing random astronomical terms together.


    Seems unlikely, since "Where No Man Has Gone Before" depicted what was explicitly the first starship probe outside our galaxy. But I guess we don't know who wrote the page. Was it Roddenberry or someone else? Did the script contain the entire text of the page?

    In my experience, TV and movie writers have a very poor understanding of what the word "galaxy" actually means and what the difference is between a galaxy and a solar system. There was that episode of the original Battlestar Galactica where they supposedly left their home galaxy for another one, and they were literally directly adjacent, like crossing a state line. And by the end of the season, they said they'd been through multiple galaxies, even though the speed of light was stated to be their maximum speed.
     
  7. NCC-73515

    NCC-73515 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2019
    Location:
    SoCal
    Space Patrol had a burning micro planet in space that was about to collide with earth, and they called it a supernova :lol:
     
  8. Noname Given

    Noname Given Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    May 22, 2001
    Location:
    Noname Given
    Hey at least it wasn't comic-sans.:eek:;)
     
  9. Maurice

    Maurice Fact Trekker Premium Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2005
    Location:
    One ferry ride from Starfleet HQ
    They would use Cosmic Sans.
     
  10. Phaser Two

    Phaser Two Commodore Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2016
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    They even had a xenophobic signature line for Spock. Ridiculous. And why wouldn't Number One have been the second signatory?
     
  11. Noname Given

    Noname Given Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    May 22, 2001
    Location:
    Noname Given
    She'd have to sign her actual full name for any Starfleet Admiral reading to see, and she didn't want to? :angel:;)
     
    dupersuper likes this.
  12. Happy Xmas (War Is Over)

    Happy Xmas (War Is Over) If You Want It Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2001
    Location:
    Nutopia
    She's not a star of the show.
     
    Christmas Corps likes this.
  13. Albertese

    Albertese Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    May 3, 2003
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    My thoughts on "Half Vulcan Science Officer Spock":

    The text of the page reads thusly:

    _____________________________________________________
    TOP SECRET

    For eyes of STARFLEET Command only

    Subject: TALOS IV in third quadrant of
    vernal galaxy.

    Known factor: Detailed information cross
    referenced with 3XY phagrin level - mass
    computer.

    The only Earthship that ever visited planet
    Talos IV was the U. S. S. Enterprise com-
    manded by Captain Christopher Pike with
    Half-Vulcan Science officer Spock.

    Recommendation: Be it hereby noted that
    said following instructions be incorpora-
    ted into STARFLEET policy...

    NO ONE WILL EVER VISIT TALOS IV..

    The following officers have visited Talos
    IV and recommend that no human
    should ever visit it again..

    Captain Christopher Pike
    Half-Vulcan Science Officer Spock

    STARFLEET COMMAND
    BY ORDER OF
    (Signature)
    Robert L. Conrad (?)
    (illegible)
    _____________________________________________________________


    Spock and Pike are the officer who's reports are being referenced, not every officer would have necessarily filed reports. Just the commander and the Science officer. Also, the Enterprise is explicitly called out as an "Earthship" suggesting that Starfleet is formally an Earth-only outfit, so an officer having dual citizenship, or possibly being an allied foreign national might be relevant information. Also, the fact that Vulcans are recognized telepaths might have weight given the nature of the contact with the Talosians.

    What I really want to know is what the heck is an "3XY phagrin level - mass
    computer?"

    --Alex
     
  14. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2003
    As Christopher and Alex say, "vernal" is a plausible-sounding astronomical buzzword (and we would need new buzzwords when starting to find our way around the Milky Way), and "half-Vulcan" is pertinent data for dealing with the Talosians (and especially for whether to allow humans to deal or not: an outside view, from a telepath no less, would appear absolutely vital).

    "3XY phagrin level-mass computer" in turn probably is "Afghanistan Banana Stand" - a simple string of nonsense that allows one to access supersecret documentation archived elsewhere, as obviously Starfleet wouldn't print "this document typed on a Remington Noiseless Model 7 Typewriter" there...

    But the document is a piece of bullshit anyway. There's no information content, and nobody in his right mind would put that many bouts of ellipsis in an official document. And "Be it hereby noted that said following instructions be incorporated" isn't acceptable even in Civil Service English.

    ...Perhaps the [...] thing is the future way of marking a clickable link through which more information can be accessed? Or the sign for heavy redaction?

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  15. F. King Daniel

    F. King Daniel Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2008
    Location:
    King Daniel Beyond
    One of those ridiculously big sci-fi computers, like those scenes in Forbidden Planet where the tiny people are walking by the massive machinery.

    That or a Christian robot designed to say Mass every sunday but also dictate Starfleet policy throughout the week.
     
    Albertese likes this.
  16. Christmas Corps

    Christmas Corps Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2011
    Location:
    astral plane
    :shifty:
     
  17. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2003
    ...Does the document mean Starfleet now knows that there never was any SS Columbia? That the Talosians did not just fake the survivors, but indeed the whole crash and the existence of the entire mission, inserting it into the minds (and thus databanks, which the minds would then falsely think they are checking) of our heroes simultaneously with inserting that fake distress call that made the viewscreen go ping?

    Or do crashes not count as visits?

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  18. Maurice

    Maurice Fact Trekker Premium Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2005
    Location:
    One ferry ride from Starfleet HQ
    FYI the script does not specify the exact content of the report. But the signature and name at the bottom sure looks like Robert L. Comsul or Cornsul.
    Screen Shot 2021-08-26 at 2.17.24 AM.png


    INSERT - THE REPORT IN KIRK I S HANDS
    Letters boldly in center: "TALOS IV" • At the bottom: "TOP SECRET--For Eyes of' Starfleet Staff Only".

    [...]

    KIRK​
    [...]General Order Four: "No vessel under any condition, emergency
    or otherwise, is to visit Talos IV."​
    [...]

    Mendez silently indicates the report, Kirk opens it, begins reading. Then he looks startled, quickly turns a page, is startled again.

    KIRK​
    The Enterprise! ·
    (looks up)​
    Commanded by Captain Pike...

    MENDEZ​
    With a half-Vulcan Science Officer
    named Spock.​
    So the exact contents are not specified in the script. One can see how someone could have cobbled the text together from the dialog. Maybe the exact text came over as a memo, but we've seen so sign of it.
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2021
  19. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2003
    Our loss. The fact that the text eventually got written and shown, that is.

    The paper we see isn't a rule or a regulation, but a mere recommendation for making a rule. Then again, Mendez never argues otherwise. Instead, he seems to be lamenting that the only piece of documentation he can access on the issue is this silly piece of paper that explains nothing. Supposedly, this would be an internal memo that was supposed to be shredded after use, but was carelessly archived instead, for people-who-don't-need-to-know to see.

    For a back-of-the-cigarette-pack note, the text and its "herebies" and "said followings" is particularly inappropriate. But possibly Comsol or his secretary was a regular Herbert.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  20. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2001
    At the end of Part 1, when Uhura relays the order that Kirk has been relieved of duty, she says "Message signed Comsol, Starfleet Command." The Concordance said "it is thought" that "Comsol" was an abbreviation for "Commander, Solar Forces," and that was accepted for decades until the HD release of "The Menagerie" let us read the signature as "Robert L. Comsol."

    So either it was meant to be a name all along, or it was meant as an abbreviation but whatever production staffer whipped up the memo misconstrued it as a name.
     
    Spocko, F. King Daniel and Timo like this.