USS Enterprise (eventually) on Discovery?

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Discovery' started by EJD1984, Jul 24, 2017.

  1. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

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    Yeah, I can't agree there. Give me the Klingons as well.
    I cannot forgive that design. It is ugly stem to stern and makes little sense as an "older design" with the newer elements. Just, ugh.
    I don't think it is weird at all. Shenzhou is a design for a fleet vessel, while the Discovery takes its nods for the 70s era Trek concept and that rather unfortunate design language.
    Ah, then you must like all the random tidbits on the TNG signage, such as "I thot I saw a putty tat" or "Objects in mirror are closer than they appear" on the doors. Sound very appropriate for a starship operations access panel sign.
     
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  2. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    It's much more than the size of the Enterprise that's different. Imagine if they launched 100 drones and fighter shuttles in "Balance of Terror", it would have played out completely differently. And there's no way they'd fit into the modest shuttlebay we see in TOS.

    Whatever they brand it as, they've essentially rebooted TOS.
     
  3. Tuskin38

    Tuskin38 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    They said they were experimental, maybe the experiment failed later on. Maybe something happened we didn't see on screen.
     
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  4. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

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    Yes, they definitely have. Which, I totally understand, and also understand individual reservations regarding treating it like it fits seamlessly with TOS. It doesn't fit seamlessly-even I can admit that. But, do I think the characters and events are the same as TOS? Yes.
     
  5. Longinus

    Longinus Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    They wouldn't fit in the shuttlebay of this bigger Enterprise either. Like not even remotely. It has to be a Tardis.
     
  6. Gonzo

    Gonzo Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    The new D7 looks great though and a huge improvement on what we saw before on Discovery.

    Yeah the Oberth is a squat little bugger, it does look pretty tough and sturdy for its size though, shame it was never equipped for a fight.

    No (shoot me here) weak nacelle pylons, a solid, sturdy and I think rather humble ship that would be quick and easy to build, wouldnt surprise me if it would be easy to upgrade and repair as well.

    Interesting to note it is one of the longest serving ship designs in Starfleet, which sounds about right to me.

    Its lasting ship designs like the Oberth that built the Federation.
     
  7. Longinus

    Longinus Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Basing it on a concept from the 70s is not a problem. Basing it on an abandoned concept from 70s however is. That thing was canned for a reason.
     
  8. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Because the entire project was cancelled, and the next Trek project had different designers and producers who had a different vision for how Trek should look. It wasn't the Enterprise design that killed Planet of the Titans.

    Unless they have a producer pushing for an old design to be reused (like Bryan Fuller here) or a John Eaves re-submitting rejected designs to every new Trek incarnation he works on, the old stuff won't come back.
     
  9. Gonzo

    Gonzo Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    As for the reboot or not a reboot question, it really boils down to whether or not each person can separate the story and characters of Star Trek from the technology and ships of Star Trek.

    If the answer is yes then the changes wont bother a person too much, if not then its going to really stand out and be an issue.
     
  10. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

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    Agree with the first half, can't agree with the last.
    Looks tough and sturdy and gets blown up with one shot. No thanks.
    I don't even follow this train of thought. Sorry, but I don't know how one goes from the NX-01 style to the Daedalus style (*shudders*) at the foundation of the Federation and declare the Oberth as the ship design that "built the Federation." By that argument one could simply argue that the Excelsior class did the same thing.
    100% correct.
    It was abandoned for a lot of reasons. Hopefully being too ugly topped the list.

    Though, we eventually got the ENT-D so who knows.
     
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  11. Longinus

    Longinus Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    At some point you can no longer separate the technology from the story. Sure, if it is just some visual difference, then it is possible, but if you start to wildly retcon in all sort of advanced technical capabilities, then that would affect the story as well. If Enterprise could actually poop an armada of drones and fighters as needed then a lot of events in TOS and the films would happen differently. And if if 23rd century science can produce a magic suit that can time travel, instantly jump to anywhere, observe all sorts of timelines unnoticed, disable technology on entire planet and resurrect the dead, and who knows what else, then the entire setting would be pretty damn different.
     
  12. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Recasting characters and altering designs is one thing, but doing things like adding a swarm of fighters to the Enterprise's arsenal would massively change not only "Balance of Terror" but pretty much every Trek battle ever. Wrath of Khan with fighters?

    I thought the end battle was epic and very well done. But it was a massive shift in how Trek battles are usually done (and even were done before in Disco), making them more like the reimagined Battlestar Galactica or Stargate Atlantis. Vis-a-vis the rest of Trek, "there was a massive battle" is probably all you can carry over events-wise to the universes of TOS or Next Gen. Anything more specific and people start wondering why fighter swarms weren't launched in Wrath of Khan, Best of Both Worlds or a hundred other times they'd have proven useful.
     
  13. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

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    You make a good point, though I will add my own personal caveat. From what I read since I was 8 (and read all Star Trek that I could) the Enterprise ship was designed to be fairly modular. Like interchangeable labs and what not. Playing Q's advocate here perhaps the drone module was removed in favor of diverting resources to labs.

    Yes, please. Same with the battle at the end of TUC.
     
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  14. Gonzo

    Gonzo Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    It was never going to have a shot against a BoP in its standard configuration, they are heavily armed and its a science vessel with basic weapons and shields.

    I have always considered the Daedalus class to be a failed experiment at best both as a ship design for the show and as a step in the design lineage, we literally never see it again and it sticks out even worse than the Shenzou, its got a very 2001 Space Odyssey vibe to it with that command section, that it came after the NX class is laughable at best.

    However on a purely design and engineering standpoint a spherical command module is a very space efficient and strong shape structurally speaking, only equalled by a cube but that has the aerodynamics of a brick, not that it matters in space though. :biggrin:

    Yes the Excelsior is definitely another of the top designs, I have noticed over the years how so many on this forum prefer ships like the Galaxy, Sovereign and Intrepid classes whose design doesnt really last long but have nice flowing lines even though that makes zero difference in space, personally I favor the Defiants (built with a singular purpose), Oberths (sturdy workhorse) and Excelsior (ship of the line) classes as the thinking behind their design feels more focused resulting in ship designs that last.

    Substance over style.

    Ship designs dont have to be big heavy cruisers to make a difference, all a design needs is a clear purpose and role to fill.
     
  15. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

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    On this I can agree. I cannot stand that Galaxy (one of the lesser designs IMHO) and the Sovereign depends. I personally had to warm up to the Excelsior but its OK now (except for the ENT-B).

    I personally favor the Defiant class, and the variants that have popped up in STO. But, the Oberth is one that I will always struggle with.

    But, I will say I appreciate your ardent argumentation for the ship.
     
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  16. Gonzo

    Gonzo Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Yeah once the retcons starts it tends to go downhill from there but as I have said before I was fine with most of the changes I only really got pulled out of the zone really badly a few times, the first was the Klingon dialogue overload (I literally skipped the whole scene with Tkuvma and his big speech as it was excruciating to listen to and went on forever), the second was the Klingon ships that looked like ships of the week from Voyager and third was the scene when Sarek leant on a desk that wasnt even in the same room as he was, that just made me laugh out loud at the stupidity of it, the overly advanced technology itself wasnt really a big deal to me it was the way it was shown that was the problem.

    I think the whole time travel and MU part should have been added in later seasons and would have been received better.

    You would think that a deep space explorer would at the very least have a large complement of shuttles that could be configured to serve various roles, we saw a hint of that with the shuttlebays in the latest Star Trek films, it looked right and felt believable to me.

    The first thing I thought when I saw the Enterprise D was "carrier", yet it only had a couple of shuttles, yet another reason why I like the Vengeance so much due to it being able to deploy drones/fighters, I mean why wouldnt you have them even if you had to carry them on pylons fixed to the outer hull.

    I always thought the reason we never saw fighter/drone battles in Star Trek was the cost and difficulty of showing them prior to the digital age, plus the effect it would have had plot wise.

    I could totally see the Klingons having fighters and using them in a kamikaze fashion, although the Jem'Hadar did the same in DS9 with their attack ships.
     
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  17. Dukhat

    Dukhat Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Let me be clearer: there’s a difference between an in-joke and actual information on a display that was meant to be taken as useful information.
     
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  18. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

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    Thank you for the clarification :techman:

    Also, canon status of Kelvin Kirk as a lieutenant confirmed *fist pump*
     
  19. Gonzo

    Gonzo Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Fair enough, think about it like this, the Oberth wasnt built to be pretty or frighten anyone, it was designed to carry out menial tasks that keep the Federation ticking over.

    Simply put the Oberth is:

    A Tug
    A Bus
    A Tanker
    A Hauler
    A Tow Truck
    A Tool

    Just imagine the Federation without those things, its a dirty job but someone has to do it.

    Better to have lots of small ships with minimal crews than a few big ships with large crews, the Oberths can quite literally be everywhere at once and they need to be.
     
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  20. cooleddie74

    cooleddie74 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Most onscreen readouts are canon except when they contain information that blatantly contradicts everything else we see onscreen and is considered official by CBS and Paramount. Though Jonathan Archer's Starfleet bio file from the TOS-era Defiant in "In A Mirror Darkly, Part II(ENT)" was partially unseen it's pretty much accepted now that Archer went on to be elected one of the first Presidents of the Federation and that doesn't necessarily contradict him being called Admiral Archer by Kelvin Timeline Scotty.
     
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