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Unseen TOS....

Starting to sketch ideas for the Valiant. I still like my overall concept I did several years back, but I’m playing with it. My first photoshopped concept looked more rudimentary and quite ‘50’s era sci-fi. The later more finished version looked much more developed and less rudimentary.

I’m thinking about how developed was the space warp technology before launching a purposely designed “galactic survey cruiser.” Remember that the idea of Zefram Cochrane didn’t exist yet. Nothing we would later learn in TOS or even TNG was conceived yet. I’m reasoning that space warp tech might have come about around mid to later 21st century assuming Jefferies didn’t envision FTL tech happening within the next several decades. The Valiant likely wouldn’t be the very first (relatively) deep space FTL exploratory ship launched, but it still could be one of the early ones. If I recall right this similar notion was put forth in Forbidden Planet ten years earlier.

My present germ of an idea is playing with a 1960’s era Atlas rocket, turning it on its side and putting the Gemini capsule at the aft end as a modified impulse engine. I am trying to narrow my reference sources to what was available at the time in terms of real world and science fiction. I don’t want the end result to be immediately recognizable as a 1960’s rocket booster, but that something about it will seem familiar. Also, since there is no exposition in the episode describing the ship its shape should suggest something distinctly more advanced than what was familiar back in the day yet also looks significantly less advanced than the Enterprise.

Although I will be building the Valiant in 3D, and it will be largely simple shapes, if it was shown on a screen in WNMHGB it would only need to be a schematic or illustration.

When one really looks at the Botany Bay it looks a lot like a pencil with a pointed end and bits and pieces added to it. Sometimes inspiration can work like that.
 
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A start.



So options are single ring, double, ring, dual nacelle, tri nacelle or quad nacelle configuration. Personally I think I like the ring concept primarily because it's more distinct and it harkens back to one of Jefferies' early ideas. It would reflect the evolution of his own thinking.

If something like this were being built it could be partly a kitbash or it could be a main section lathed out of a single piece of wood. The "wings" or support pylons could also be wood or plastic. Then bits of whatever for detailing and then paint.
 
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I'm strongly tempted to break out a Gemini Atlas model kit I have squirreled away and do a version of this in plastic...

If you're taking votes, I'm casting mine for single ring.

--Alex
 
I find myself thinking the ringship Enterprise XCV-330 came first as a form of prototype followed by the mission oriented Valiant type ships. My reasoning is that on the ringship E it looks like the slim support boom between the aft section and the habitable pod up front isn’t meant to be used much, keeping the ship’s habitable area distant from the drive section. Later when the tech is more proven the centre section is thickened up. As space warp technology is further developed the rings will eventually evolve into nacelles.
 
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I like that progression. Personally, I've always favored the interpretation that the ringship Enterprise was indeed a small test vehicle rather than a large passenger liner or whatever.

I have always liked the Valiant as presented in Okuda's Star Trek Chronology, but your take on it is more interesting I think. And I like the effort to make it seem like a "what could have been" design vintage to a 1965/66 era production.

I notice on your sketch that you have the "Gemini" impulse engine the same diameter as the wide part of the Atlas. While this is fine for a ship lathed out of pine in the woodshop, it doesn't match the actual rocket, which will make a version bashed out of a real plastic kit problematic. I think my take on your design will be pretty different in the end. It'll be fun to see what different approaches to the same concept will unfold.

As a matter of etiquette (assuming I actually do build this) would like me to post pictures of it here in your thread or start my own damn thread?

--Alex
 
I would welcome seing your model here. My idea of using the Atlass rocket as a basis for the design was meant more for inspiration rather than an actual kitbash, which could still work.

Also, on the sketch the Gemini capsule used as the impulse housing is not in scale with the rest of the rocket booster. As I said I used those shapes as inspiration. But the sketch allowed me to focus on an overall concept that still needs to be fleshed out and detailed.
 
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What could they make? Wood, styrene, fiberglass. What did you want to make? The main constrains I see are budget, the universal, and design. What would the show's producer OK in the art meetings? Remember, Star Wars did not have better materials a few years later. The Star Destroyer is largely styrene sheet on wood framing and decorated with half the 1/700 scale naval models produced that year.

If you need a lot of something you cast in resin. You have power tools of course for turning and cutting.

Given the budget, the main issue is design. It would be clean, post industrial design, like we see in the show.

I like that Valiant. We do not see many annular warp drives.
 
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A key to TOS design, to keep costs manageable, is keeping the bulk of the object relatively straightforward. You can then dress it up some with bits and pieces. But the issue isn’t really design, but being able to build it within allotted time. Now in this exercise we’re indulging the conceit that TOS could have had a bit more time and money to build needed miniatures and props.

In the Valiant’s case they wouldn’t actually have had to build a physical miniature. They would have needed only to make a drawing, either a schematic or illustration, that could be mounted on a monitor screen.
 
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In the Valiant’s case they wouldn’t actually have had to build a physical miniature. They would have needed only to make a drawing, either a schematic or illustration, that could be mounted on a monitor screen.

Unless you want the crew to come across the wreck of the ship. I like dramatic visuals. And then you have a ship.
 
The story established the Valiant was destroyed so there is no wreck to see. This exercise is largely adding to the existing stories rather than rewriting the stories.

But if TOS had had a little more time and money it isn’t just extra ship miniatures that could have been possible, but perhaps also added and/or slightly more elaborate sets as well as some improved visual fx sequences.
 
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But if TOS had had a little more time and money it isn’t just extra ship miniatures that could have been possible, but perhaps also added and/or slightly more elaborate sets as well as some improved visual fx sequences.

More elaborate sets I can see. Improved visual effects? They were pushing the art as it is. It would be nice to see what they could have done if they did not have to cut corners everywhere.

That said, limits spark creativity. Would we have gotten some of the creative solutions if they did not have the squeeze every dollar until George screamed?
 
When I look at TOS i can come away feeling that so much of it works yet there are things where I feel a little extra time/or money could have helped.

One thing that has long bugged me are the different computer or instrument terminals we would see. Some of them were truly elegant and futuristic looking—like the computer terminals affixed to the briefing room table—and some of them could be clunky and dated looking like those seen along the walls in the shuttlecraft interior.
 
When I look at TOS i can come away feeling that so much of it works yet there are things where I feel a little extra time/or money could have helped.

One thing that has long bugged me are the different computer or instrument terminals we would see. Some of them were truly elegant and futuristic looking—like the computer terminals affixed to the briefing room table—and some of them could be clunky and dated looking like those seen along the walls in the shuttlecraft interior.


Take a look at what was developing and selling in 1966. Computer timeline 1960s You cannot judge modern for 1966 by today. By today's standard 1966 barely had computers. The last entry on that page is the development of 8 bit ram. So I don't judge their depiction of computers too harshly.
 
^ Yep - and I noticed it when it first aired - and I was about 3 years old... :shrug:
I frankly do not believe that.
A start.



So options are single ring, double, ring, dual nacelle, tri nacelle or quad nacelle configuration. Personally I think I like the ring concept primarily because it's more distinct and it harkens back to one of Jefferies' early ideas. It would reflect the evolution of his own thinking.

If something like this were being built it could be partly a kitbash or it could be a main section lathed out of a single piece of wood. The "wings" or support pylons could also be wood or plastic. Then bits of whatever for detailing and then paint.
It's a little Filmation Flash Gordon, isn't it? :)
 
Take a look at what was developing and selling in 1966. Computer timeline 1960s You cannot judge modern for 1966 by today. By today's standard 1966 barely had computers. The last entry on that page is the development of 8 bit ram. So I don't judge their depiction of computers too harshly.
8-bit RAM isn't a limitation except in terms of that you need a lot of chips. The width of the address bus and the speed of the processors are the larger throttle.
 
I'm thinking about how the Valiant might have been colored and marked in a TOS production. Perhaps we can take a clue from the recorder buoy. Seems like a medium gray with a ting of metallic green. The lettering is white.

Or, it could have just been sprayed silver like so many other one-off ships on TOS.

--Alex
 
The recorder marker reference is a fair suggestion. In the TAS thread on my versions of the Starfleet ships I've been using similar colours as the TOS E was painted to help give them a sense of uniformity.

It will be interesting to see how this Valiant looks as a 3D model and then converted to a 2D schematic and illustration. If possible I would like the schematic to look something like the orthos Matt Jefferies drew of the Enterprise and Klingon battle cruiser reprinted in The Making of Star Trek, then insert it onto one of Spock's overhead bridge monitors in WNMHGB.
 
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8-bit RAM isn't a limitation except in terms of that you need a lot of chips. The width of the address bus and the speed of the processors are the larger throttle.

The point being it was brand spanking NEW. Prior to that, NO 8 bit ram. In 1966 computers filled rooms, had output by teletype, and were less powerful than your phone.

We have come so far it is hard to see were we were a generation ago. My education did not involve computers, at all. No school I attended had one at the time I was there. The Apple ][ came out a year after I graduated high school. My son had a few of them in school in elementary. So 50 years ago, no computers in the public sector.

Star Trek TOS was forging new ground with their description of computers.
 
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