Unseen TOS....

Discussion in 'Fan Art' started by Warped9, Feb 5, 2021.

  1. Imaus

    Imaus Captain Captain

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    Apparently where and how Engineering is - is a debate all of its own!

    My take? Two identical engineerings, one by the Impulse deck and one down below behind/above a cargo bay/shuttle bay in the secondary hull :V
     
  2. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

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    Main Engineering was a relatively simple thing during the first season, the reasoning being they didn’t think they’d spend much time there. But they later reasoned they could spend more time on such a set a decided to expand it and continued adding to it.

    Obviously it’s actually meant to be the same set and you could just ignore the differences. Or you can rationalize that there are two Engineering facilities.

    - If we accept here is only one Engineering then it’s in the secondary hull.
    - If we accept there are indeed two, different sized Engineering areas, then the larger Main Engineering is in the secondary hull and the supplementary Engineering is in the aft end of the saucer.

    Re: the diagram MGagen posted. Thats a Matt Jefferies’ drawing and it shows his intention for the flight deck and shuttlecraft storage and maintenance. It echoes what he drew on his earlier TOS E cutaway drawing where the Flight Deck is a more constrained area than it’s shown to be onscreen. It also shows the clamshell doors are more shallow than most people assume. So it seems my instincts to follow Jefferies’ general thinking appear to be more on the mark than simply trying to force-fit a production compromise filming miniature into the space meant for a smaller facility.
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2023
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  3. blssdwlf

    blssdwlf Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Just an observation... Interestingly the diagram MGagen posted also shows the large circular belly hatch now moved further back to the 365' mark compared to where it was originally on the TOS Enterprise (near the middle). This would suggest MJ had significantly altered the internal configuration of the Phase 2 engineering hull instead of merely keeping it like it was.
     
  4. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

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    It’s inescapable the Phase II E was more than a simple refit just given the shape of the secondary hull is distinctly different than the TOS version. Indeed a lot of the ship was redrawn by Jefferies for Phase II.

    My attempt at a Phase II/TMP refit stayed much closer to the original TOS form. The nacelles and support pylons are the most drastic change, but most other changes were much more subtle and harder to spot. The curvature on the upper and lower saucer surfaces were subtly altered that allowed for more internal space, but only the learned eye would really notice it.

    [​IMG]
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    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2023
  5. 137th Gebirg

    137th Gebirg Admiral Premium Member

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    That's pretty!
     
  6. Henoch

    Henoch Rear Admiral Premium Member

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    I noticed you also fixed some the window spacing especially in the dorsal neck, and I think, in the secondary hull. It looks like your windows are smaller, too, or is the ship bigger scale?
     
  7. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

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    I might have tidied up the window alignment, but I don’t think I made them smaller. It might be the lighting. I also did not change the scale of the ship. The saucer is still 417ft. in diameter and the secondary hull is still the same length. So the hangar area I built would fit into this version or the TOS version since it’s meant to be the same ship.

    IF I were updating TOS for a Phase II like project in the 1970s I would be inclined to hew closely to what had already been established albeit with a bit more detail. But not the level of change we saw in TMP—that could be argued as going somewhat too far while still insisting it’s the same continuity.

    The uniforms in TMP are an example. On one hand the TMP uniforms are more realistically toned down in terms of colour. But they come across as too toned down compared to what we were familiar with. Part of the reasoning was it was believed the more colourful uniforms of TOS would not translate well to the big screen. Well, as much as I detest the JJtrek films they did show TOS’s uniform colour scheme could work on the big screen. It was a matter of tweaking the tone of the colours.

    TMP was something of an exercise in change for change’s sake. TMP is my favourite Trek Film and there are a lot of things right in it, but I do think they went too far in some respects of design and execution.
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2023
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  8. MGagen

    MGagen Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    The large cross section drawing MJ did for Phase II makes me think he had a similar one for the original version. One he probably still had on hand to consult when working on Phase II.

    Don't you wish we could get our hands on that blueprint? Every deck level notated....

    Nice Phase II model, BTW.

    M.
     
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  9. Imaus

    Imaus Captain Captain

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    Something's (positive) eyecatching about those nacelles, neat.
     
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  10. STEPhon IT

    STEPhon IT Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Which was something I am still surprised about? When I had the opportunity to see the 2 eps of "Menagerie" on a cinema screen; the colors and look and the feel was absolutely stunning, seeing more detail from the make up and production design I couldn't see on TV. It looked larger than life for me and the crowded audience who were lucky to see this spectacle. Yes, it was the remastered version, but when I saw it everything about it looked cinematic.

    With TMP I do believe the colors of green, blue, and red could've been achieved but I don't think making the uniforms yellow would support the kind of tone the film was looking for.
     
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  11. Racer_X

    Racer_X Commander Red Shirt

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    I always assumed he used the cutaway from The Making of Star Trek. While not annotated, it's looks very similar to the Phase II cutaway (For example, the tallest deck in both is the central deck of the secondary hull, and the turboshafts are located at the same locations).

    [​IMG]
     
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  12. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

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    I would LOVE to see the original fullsize cutaway drawing.
     
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  13. 137th Gebirg

    137th Gebirg Admiral Premium Member

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    Interesting to note there is no primary hull undercut in that cutaway. Never noticed that before...
     
  14. publiusr

    publiusr Admiral Admiral

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    The is a bevil to the saucer's lower edge however...some years ago---someone started work on CGI of that---but it fell away.
     
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  15. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

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    I was able to save this image before something truly bizarre happened. The file for my hangar model at this stage completely disappeared. I can't find it anywhere. The version of the hangar I have is with the shuttlecraft having the lighting I added to the bow and the nacelles. But the corridor and centre doorway along with the hangar pressurization controls is gone. I hope I can find it or it means rebuilding that again. This has never happened to me before. I went to save the file as updated and it just disappeared—I can’t find it anywhere on my computer.

    I was able to save the shuttlecraft with the open access hatch because that was in a different file.

    [​IMG]

    N
    ote in this shot I had turned off the lighting in the nacelle domes with the idea the warp nacelles would not likely be powered up with the shuttlecraft parked with the access hatch open.

    As things stand now, unless I can find that saved file, to recreate this shot I will have to rebuild the doorway at the forward wall of the flight deck as well as the lobby outside that doorway including the signage and hangar pressure control panel. Fortunately I still have the added shuttlecraft exterior lighting as well as the interior with open hatchway saved.

    *Sigh*

    Another note: even if you zoom in from this angle you can’t really see the thickness between the inner and outer hulls. Mind you it’s not that much—certainly totally insufficient to serve as an airlock between the two hulls. But there is enough room for me to add an overhead light between the inner and outer hatches.

    I must say, if I may, I think this shot looks rather cool. Certainly helps to flesh out one of the Enterprise’s interiors.
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2023
  16. Mytran

    Mytran Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Damn, that's some bad luck! :confused:
    I've "lost" files before through careless mouse-work on File Manager, by accidentally dragging and dropping the file into another folder.
    I know you've already done a full search of your hard drive, but are there any protected folders which could have been excluded?
     
  17. blssdwlf

    blssdwlf Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    @Warped9 - that sucks about the missing file. Are you able to check for and recover deleted files? (Best done by not doing any major file moving or copying or optimization.)

    Regarding the inner and outer hatches, are you talking about the blue door in your image?
     
  18. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

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    ^^ Yes, I'm talking about the blue door. It appears I also lost the railings I put in the observation deck towers that hang out over the flight deck--so another thing to be redone.

    I've searched everywhere including the trash. It's nowhere to be found. So this will be a step-by-step reconstruction from a given point. Mind you it will allow me to tweak a few things I wasn't completely happy with before.


    I think part of the problem I'm beginning to run into is my computer is bumping into limitations in terms of processor. SketchUp itself is a single core program and maybe my i7 2600S 2.8GHz is struggling with very complex models such as this hangar with shuttlecraft (with interior). It can't be RAM of which I have 32GB. And I have plenty of storage (332GB of 500GB SSD avaialable).

    I'm not sure, but I might have had this happen once before many years ago. It might be a case of a misplaced file, but I built a 3D model of the 1930's Flash Gordon rocketship, with full interior, and that model also seems to have disappeared.
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2023
  19. trynda1701

    trynda1701 Commodore Commodore

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    Sorry to hear about the shuttlecraft hanger file loss. :( :( :( :(
     
  20. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

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    Step 1 completed--putting the lighted elements back onto the shuttlecraft on the flight deck.

    Step 2 is to put the blue doorway back onto the forward bulkhead, rebuild the adjacent lobby and put the railings back into the observation galley towers.

    Step 3 is to copy the exterior of the shuttlecraft, remove all traces of the exterior hatch and gangway (in closed osition) and insert the shuttlecraft's inner hull with interior with attached access hatch and gangway open. Also put the nacelle step plate in open position.