It does. But thats not the subject of this discussion.
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Unseen TOS....
- Thread starter Warped9
- Start date
All right. Here's a recap.
A cross-section of the flight deck and maintenance bay.
That is scholarly work there--definitive.
I don’t know how long you have been following this thread, but bear with me.
What I don't get is how it's supposedly super far-fetched to suggest going back to those early Jefferies sketches for inspiration, when it's fine in other cases to go back to Jefferies sketches and be inspired by them. Seems to me the only difference is the fact that the one set of sketches was used on post-TOS shows, while others might not have been.
Back several thread pages ago I was working out a design for an Earth ship during the period of the Earth/Romulan war, a century prior to TOS. At the time I actually did go back and again looked at Jefferies’ sketches as he worked toward a final design for the Enterprise. I’ve been familiar with those sketches for fifty years.
Jefferies eventually rejected that early concept, and I understand why he rejected it—because a spherical hull is aesthetically disappointing. It saps energy from the design. I’ve done designs with spherical hulls inspired by Jefferies’ drawings, but they still don’t look great except from certain angles. And ultimately whatever you put on the screen you want it to look cool or at least interesting.
So if I, like Jefferies, rejected the spherical hull idea for my Romulan War era Earth cruiser then why would I go back to it for a possible Archon/Horizon design?
For the record here is a spherical hull starship I designed years ago based on Jefferies’ sketches.
Hmm, I guess the grey colour of the hatch is blending into the shadow which is hiding the hatch shadow.
Alcove hatch before rendering. It's a rather shallow detail that could be emphasized a bit more. That hatch panel is recessed, but in real terms it wouldn't have to be recessed much. For a model it could be recessed a bit more.
Odd, though. It looks like the alcove ceiling light panel isn’t emitting. I’ll have to check that. Then again those alcoves are not lighted in the original miniature.
Odd, though. It looks like the alcove ceiling light panel isn’t emitting. I’ll have to check that. Then again those alcoves are not lighted in the original miniature.
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Alcove hatch before rendering. It's a rather shallow detail that could be emphasized a bit more. That hatch panel is recessed, but in real terms it wouldn't have to be recessed much. For a model it could be recessed a bit more.
Odd, though. It looks like the alcove ceiling light panel isn’t emitting. I’ll have to check that.
Thanks for a look at the geometry. If the hatches were recessed would not the edges of the hatch facing the light on the miniature catch the light instead of being dark? Or perhaps in your version you would color the door frame inner edges dark to outline them?
In my 3D program, SketchUp, you can adjust the camera’s field of view and focal length.
A last word about my hangar deck model. I think I will need to go back to modify the forward bulkhead under the observation gallery. In both “Journey To Babel” and “The Immunity Syndrome” we see a doorway onto, what we can presume to be, the flight deck with the shuttlecraft waiting parked sideways with access hatch open. Presently I don’t have an access doorway that allows for that, so I’ll have to fix it.
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The main issue with the doorway into the flight deck as seen in JTB and TIS is that the clamshell doors are not visible behind the parked shuttle. TOS-R attempted to get around this and posited the doorway on the side of the ship and added part of a observation gallery to the top of the view but it would also mean the JTB corridor would be sticking out of the side of the ship.
The only place you could put that doorway is in the hangar deck below the flight deck which doesn't have the problem of the missing clamshell doors and lack of space on the sides of the ship. You already have that setup in your 3D model.
The missing clamshell doors could be explained away by budget limitations. After all we see a plain big empty room. On the maintenance deck I have an entrance in the centre of the wall, but why would you bring dignitaries aboard through what is essentially a workshop/garage service area?
Could be that the hangar area is more quickly pressurized/depressurized, being a smaller volume. So dignitaries (or anyone, really) would rather board down there instead of waiting for the longer atmosphere cycling in the grander space. Problem with that is that it supposes the lower area is also wide and empty, making us wonder where the other shuttlecraft are stowed. Also--and I know 1989 is outside the scope of this project--when we see the very TOS-esque shuttlebay in Star Trek V they deboard the shuttle right there in the flight deck--right next to another stowed shuttle. But, by then, atmospheric forcefields seem to have already been a thing, for sure since TMP. (Again, I'm aware of the later productions lacking weight here.)
--Alex
^^ My impression is the two instances in TOS where we see someone disembarking or embarking a shuttlecraft it was supposedly on the flight deck. It’s my bad I forgot to take that into account on my model. I’ll correct that. I’m curious what that will look like iI ry to recreate that shot of looking onto the flight deck through those doors open and with shuttlecraft waiting. The shuttlecraft will likely look closer than it does onscreen.
I created a full interior for the shuttlecraft (I’ve posted the pics), but I never modelled it with the access hatch open. This could make for a very interesting shot with the shuttlecraft waiting on the flight deck.
And as I said upthread I might also try to play with the observation gallery windows in perhaps frosting them to look more like what we saw onscreen.
I created a full interior for the shuttlecraft (I’ve posted the pics), but I never modelled it with the access hatch open. This could make for a very interesting shot with the shuttlecraft waiting on the flight deck.
And as I said upthread I might also try to play with the observation gallery windows in perhaps frosting them to look more like what we saw onscreen.
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Several reasons come to mind:
1. Albertese's explanation that it is a smaller volume to re-pressurize is a plus. The crew could easily clean up the hangar deck and move the other shuttle(s) to the flight deck since JTB was a planned event.
2. The flight deck can remain operational. It would be the same reason why airplanes taxi off the runway to a safe area before allowing people to disembark.
3. In addition to the missing clamshell doors in the background there is also the missing red square surrounding the circle that is visible on the flight deck. Even if they didn't have the budget to build the clamshell doors full size or do a matte painting surely they would've added that square if it was meant to be the flight deck since they already painted the circle. But even the red square wasn't added despite having two episodes to do it.
4. The flight deck miniature is missing the yellow line present in front of the doors in JTB although that could be explained by being not in the camera's field of view.
5. In "The Conscience of the King", while touring the observation deck Kirk points past the observation deck windows and says that is the "flight deck down there with the shuttle craft".
The Hangar Complex consists of the Flight Deck and the Hangar Deck and probably a Shuttlecraft Maintenance area(s) fore of the Hangar. The Hangar is on the Hangar Deck which is the deck directly below the Flight Deck. Just to confuse things though, the Hangar Doors are on the Flight Deck and not the Hangar Deck. 
Shuttlecraft are mission prepped with equipment and personnel in the Hangar on the Hangar Deck. Dangerous shuttlecraft prep such as refueling is done on the Flight Deck using the refueling station on the port side of the ship.
Both aft-most control booths are probably accessed by a telescoping/retractable ladder out the floor of the booth. The ladder could be at a slight angle to aid in climbing the ladder (or fold down stairs like I have to my garage crawlspace). There is no passthrough connection for people from the booth to the side of the ship.
Shuttlecraft are mission prepped with equipment and personnel in the Hangar on the Hangar Deck. Dangerous shuttlecraft prep such as refueling is done on the Flight Deck using the refueling station on the port side of the ship.Both aft-most control booths are probably accessed by a telescoping/retractable ladder out the floor of the booth. The ladder could be at a slight angle to aid in climbing the ladder (or fold down stairs like I have to my garage crawlspace). There is no passthrough connection for people from the booth to the side of the ship.
And then there is the red rectangle on the undercut fantail. It lines up exactly with the hangar. Is it a hatch or something else? And if a hatch, why have exterior access that avoids the flight deck (unless to, you know, avoid needlessly evacuating the entire flight deck for small craft ingress/egress?)
Okay, “Journey To Babel” came first. In sequence we see the shuttlecraft brought in and landed on the flight deck through the clamshell doors, the turntable rotates, we hear the announcement the hangar is pressurizing, and next we see the corridor door open to reveal the shuttlecraft parked at right angles. The immediate implication is the shuttlecraft is still on the flight deck despite not seeing the obvious details of the flight deck we should see. Regrettably we don’t see those details, but thats not surprising given TOS sometimes had to cut corners due to budget.
Next in “The Immunity Syndrome” we see Spock approach the shuttlecraft in the very same way Sarek and his party exit the shuttlecraft.
Now technically the hangar should be considered below the flight deck. Unfortunately within TOS we’ve heard “flight deck” and “hangar deck” used interchangeably to mean the same thing. And in The Making Of Star Trek the cutaway drawing of the flight deck is referred to as the hangar deck. So maybe the usage of terms has fluctuated/evolved over time so that “hangar deck” has come to be a blanket term to mean the entire facility.
And in that spirit I’ve already added that alcove/doorway in the centre of the forward bulkhead under the observation gallery. The door is also blue the same as we see in the episode. Mind you I already had a centred door on the maintenance deck, which is technically the hangar where the shuttlecraft are stored.
Next in “The Immunity Syndrome” we see Spock approach the shuttlecraft in the very same way Sarek and his party exit the shuttlecraft.
Now technically the hangar should be considered below the flight deck. Unfortunately within TOS we’ve heard “flight deck” and “hangar deck” used interchangeably to mean the same thing. And in The Making Of Star Trek the cutaway drawing of the flight deck is referred to as the hangar deck. So maybe the usage of terms has fluctuated/evolved over time so that “hangar deck” has come to be a blanket term to mean the entire facility.
And in that spirit I’ve already added that alcove/doorway in the centre of the forward bulkhead under the observation gallery. The door is also blue the same as we see in the episode. Mind you I already had a centred door on the maintenance deck, which is technically the hangar where the shuttlecraft are stored.
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I can't recall, but isn't the term "Shuttlecraft Hangar Bay" (or is it Shuttlecraft Hangar/Bay) used once or twice in TOS?
In this case the the "Bay" would include the cavernous area with the Observation Deck and Flight Deck, and what we're calling the "clamshell" doors would be instead properly called the "Shuttlecraft Bay" doors? Below the Flight Deck would be the Hangar Deck proper, with sliding doors built into the flight deck (within the red circle) sealing of the deck below, so the area can pressurize after the elevator has taken the Shuttlecraft down to the Hangar Deck, these then, would be called the "Hangar" doors?
In this case the the "Bay" would include the cavernous area with the Observation Deck and Flight Deck, and what we're calling the "clamshell" doors would be instead properly called the "Shuttlecraft Bay" doors? Below the Flight Deck would be the Hangar Deck proper, with sliding doors built into the flight deck (within the red circle) sealing of the deck below, so the area can pressurize after the elevator has taken the Shuttlecraft down to the Hangar Deck, these then, would be called the "Hangar" doors?
Às @Warped9 says, Hanger Deck and Flight Deck were both used for the large area we saw with the small shuttle miniature.
"Conscience of the King" presumably from the observation corridor, had Kirk mention to Lenore about down there thru the inner window was the flight deck.
I'm sure in "The Immunity Syndrome", as Spock was returning to the Enterprise, Kyle, at the helm after we see the shuttle landing, used the line "hanger doors closed, hanger deck, pressurizing".
It's confusing, I'm getting a headache!
"Conscience of the King" presumably from the observation corridor, had Kirk mention to Lenore about down there thru the inner window was the flight deck.
I'm sure in "The Immunity Syndrome", as Spock was returning to the Enterprise, Kyle, at the helm after we see the shuttle landing, used the line "hanger doors closed, hanger deck, pressurizing".
It's confusing, I'm getting a headache!
I took a look again and it would appear that the terminology and the bay changed over the 3 seasons.
In Season 1, the landing and take off area with the observation deck overlooking it is called the flight deck. There is a hangar deck to store shuttlecaft. The clamshell doors were called the flight hatch.
In early Season 2, we hear the first use of shuttlecraft bay and the doors are now called shuttlecraft bay doors. The lobby to the hangar deck has the label, "Hanger Deck" although there is one sign in a corridor to another entrance that read Shuttlecraft Hanger Deck. By late Season 2, the clamshell doors are just called hangar doors and hangar deck is interchangeable for flight deck.
"Journey To Babel" would benefit from the hangar deck being below as the shuttle rotation on the flight deck would have the tail of the shuttle facing the blue door on the forward bulkhead. If the shuttle is lowered while still rotating during the cut to the lobby waiting at the door then it could be in the hangar facing the correct direction. Otherwise it would appear that the shuttle rotated 450 degrees on the flight deck for no particular reason.
In Season 3, hangar deck and hangar doors are primarily spoken and we see either a new lobby or a moved lobby that has a new sign, Shuttlecraft Hanger Deck.
References...
In "The Conscience of the King":
In "The Galileo Seven":
In "The Menagerie"
In "Metamorphosis":
In "The Doomsday Machine":
Decker sneaks past the sign "Shuttlecraft Hanger Deck".
In "Journey to Babel":
In "The Immunity Syndrome":
The sign still reads "Hanger Deck" in the lobby when McCoy sees Spock off.
In Season 1, the landing and take off area with the observation deck overlooking it is called the flight deck. There is a hangar deck to store shuttlecaft. The clamshell doors were called the flight hatch.
In early Season 2, we hear the first use of shuttlecraft bay and the doors are now called shuttlecraft bay doors. The lobby to the hangar deck has the label, "Hanger Deck" although there is one sign in a corridor to another entrance that read Shuttlecraft Hanger Deck. By late Season 2, the clamshell doors are just called hangar doors and hangar deck is interchangeable for flight deck.
"Journey To Babel" would benefit from the hangar deck being below as the shuttle rotation on the flight deck would have the tail of the shuttle facing the blue door on the forward bulkhead. If the shuttle is lowered while still rotating during the cut to the lobby waiting at the door then it could be in the hangar facing the correct direction. Otherwise it would appear that the shuttle rotated 450 degrees on the flight deck for no particular reason.
In Season 3, hangar deck and hangar doors are primarily spoken and we see either a new lobby or a moved lobby that has a new sign, Shuttlecraft Hanger Deck.
References...
In "The Conscience of the King":
KIRK: This is the observation deck. That's the flight deck down there with the shuttlecraft.
In "The Galileo Seven":
KIRK: Thank you. This is the captain speaking. Flight deck, prepare Columbus for immediate exit for a search of the planet surface.
...
[Columbus lands and clamshell doors start to close]
UHURA: The Columbus is aboard sir. The flight hatch is closed.
...
[Columbus lands and clamshell doors start to close]
UHURA: The Columbus is aboard sir. The flight hatch is closed.
In "The Menagerie"
KIRK: Store our shuttlecraft on the hangar deck, Mister Scott. Beam us directly aboard.
In "Metamorphosis":
Scott: Shuttlecraft bay standing by to receive you.
In "The Doomsday Machine":
Decker sneaks past the sign "Shuttlecraft Hanger Deck".
[Clamshell doors are opening.]
SULU: Mister Spock, someone's opening the shuttlecraft bay doors.
SULU: Mister Spock, someone's opening the shuttlecraft bay doors.
In "Journey to Babel":
CHEKOV: Standby to recover shuttlecraft. Honor guard to hangar deck.
[we see shuttlecraft in space]
[we see honor guard in lobby?]
OC VOICE: Clear hangar deck. Clear hangar deck. Depressurizing. [immediate cut to the clamshell doors already open and shuttle descending to land.] Recovering shuttlecraft. [Shuttle still descending] [Shuttle lands on triple rail and clamshell door closes]. Hangar deck pressurizing.
[Lobby again with honor guard]
[Shuttle rotating on circle pad]
[Back to blue pressure door to hangar deck and the red light goes off and green light on. Door opens with port-side of the shuttle visible]
[Door label says "Hanger Deck"]
[we see shuttlecraft in space]
[we see honor guard in lobby?]
OC VOICE: Clear hangar deck. Clear hangar deck. Depressurizing. [immediate cut to the clamshell doors already open and shuttle descending to land.] Recovering shuttlecraft. [Shuttle still descending] [Shuttle lands on triple rail and clamshell door closes]. Hangar deck pressurizing.
[Lobby again with honor guard]
[Shuttle rotating on circle pad]
[Back to blue pressure door to hangar deck and the red light goes off and green light on. Door opens with port-side of the shuttle visible]
[Door label says "Hanger Deck"]
In "The Immunity Syndrome":
The sign still reads "Hanger Deck" in the lobby when McCoy sees Spock off.
[After the shuttlecraft lands and clamshell doors are closing]
[Cut to bridge]
KYLE: Received shuttlecraft. Hangar doors closed. Hangar deck pressurizing.
In "Let That Be Your Last Battlefield"[Cut to bridge]
KYLE: Received shuttlecraft. Hangar doors closed. Hangar deck pressurizing.
SULU: Hangar doors open and clearing for entrance of shuttlecraft. [shuttle is descending to land with clamshell doors opened] Shuttlecraft approaching hangar deck.
[shuttlecraft lands on triple rail and clamshell doors start to close]
[cut to turbolift]
SULU: Hanger doors closed, and hangar deck is pressurizing.
[shuttle is rotating on circle pad]
[kirk and spock exit turbolift into corridor]
KIRK: We'll enter as soon as the doors open. Go on my command.
[The lobby is now angled and the sign reads "Shuttlecraft Hanger Deck"]
[shuttlecraft lands on triple rail and clamshell doors start to close]
[cut to turbolift]
SULU: Hanger doors closed, and hangar deck is pressurizing.
[shuttle is rotating on circle pad]
[kirk and spock exit turbolift into corridor]
KIRK: We'll enter as soon as the doors open. Go on my command.
[The lobby is now angled and the sign reads "Shuttlecraft Hanger Deck"]
Nice summary!
How do you mean the lobby is angled in the last entry? Can you provide a picture?
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