Look at how drastically the U.S. Cavalry uniforms changed from the 19th to the 20th centuries, from the two-tone blue shades with yellow rank stripes that had stood for decades to the olive drab, leggings and mountie hats.
Uniforms
- Thread starter PCz911
- Start date
Some of that comes feom what is ideal in the modern battlefield. When weapons get more accurate, it becomes less needed to left your own troops know where your formations are, rather it is important to not let the enemy know were you are so they can't just shoot you.
The old British Army uniforms into the 19th century were bright red. You could seen them from a long ways away. They made nice targets for those with the skill needed to snipe back then. By the advent of accurate rifles and machine guns, the Brititsh when to more earth tone colors.
Starfleet are inside giant starships most of the time. They don't have a real reason to blend into the enviroment when not on some special mission on a planet. Then they have field jackets and alternate uniforms. But in space, or on base? Why not bright red? Not like you are trying to hide your numbers or formations.
The old British Army uniforms into the 19th century were bright red. You could seen them from a long ways away. They made nice targets for those with the skill needed to snipe back then. By the advent of accurate rifles and machine guns, the Brititsh when to more earth tone colors.
Starfleet are inside giant starships most of the time. They don't have a real reason to blend into the enviroment when not on some special mission on a planet. Then they have field jackets and alternate uniforms. But in space, or on base? Why not bright red? Not like you are trying to hide your numbers or formations.
Yeah, a case could be made that Starfleet even wants its personnel to be highly visible as explorers, scientists, and diplomats. When missions require them to be otherwise, then they've been seen to adopt native clothing (and even cosmetic surgery) to blend in.
To be fair, the miniskirt uniform as informed by fashions of the day, as well as sex appeal, I won't deny that
To be fair to the production as a whole where the female uniform skant is concerned, they weren't all the same length. Nichelle Nichols' was in fact shorter than any of the others, an actual miniskirt of the era, while most of the rest were midis, falling just above the knee. Nichelle Nichols is the only actress on TOS that at any point one could see her spankypants under her skirt when she was standing. The skirt was too long on all the others for that. Though admittedly, some were shorter than others.
To be fair, I'm not objecting to the length of the skirts here.
(All being fair, of course.
)
Um, no. Really, no. Just, no. They were minis, not midis. Here is a sample of pictures, establishing that.
To be fair, the miniskirt uniform as informed by fashions of the day, as well as sex appeal, I won't deny that
But, the length of the skirt as not always objected to by the female cast members. I think Nichelle Nichols commented that she did not find the skirt particularly out of place from some of her daily wardrobe. Again, changing fashions and times.
To be fair to the production as a whole where the female uniform skant is concerned, they weren't all the same length. Nichelle Nichols' was in fact shorter than any of the others, an actual miniskirt of the era, while most of the rest were midis, falling just above the knee. Nichelle Nichols is the only actress on TOS that at any point one could see her spankypants under her skirt when she was standing. The skirt was too long on all the others for that. Though admittedly, some were shorter than others.
http://tos.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/1x01/themantrap136.jpg
http://tos.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/1x09/daggerofthemind103.jpg
http://tos.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/1x11/themanagerie1_003.jpg
http://tos.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/1x14/balanceofterror006.jpg
http://tos.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/1x15/Shore_Leave_081.JPG
http://tos.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/2x02/WhoMournsForAdonais0002.jpg
http://tos.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/2x05/theapple_003.jpg
The only midi I recall was Shaw's dress uniform:
http://tos.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/1x20/Court_Martial_126.JPG
That's a good point,that Starfleet does not mind being visible in the field ("they don't go sneaking around"
).Personally, I prefer the colors of TOS due to the high visibility that they provide in a situation requiring quick identification. One of the reasons that TMP and even the TWOK changes were kind of odd to me was the lack of color consistency from TOS to the films. Though, an argument certainly can be made that the color scheme follows from concepts from "The Cage," especially with the jumpsuits, blue and beige coloring, among other things.
Don't get me wrong, I still like the TWOK uniforms and they are among my top favorite uniforms in the franchise. But, the gaudiness of the TWOK is a bit disconnected from TMP or TOS.
I think, if the TWOK jackets were reworked in their color a little, or if they used a different rank system, it would be more appealing to me. However, still a good look.
The TWOK uniforms might be some admiral's idea to make Starfleet look like one big happy professional fleet. While there are differences in the undershirt colors and rank pins, they are not as noticable as the older TOS uniforms where you had vivid color contrast and clearly visible rank bands. Though now you have a visual differance between enlisted and officers. Though less clue to which one of the officers is the captain. At a distance. I suppose the TMP and Cage uniforms do this with less colors.
And I don't mean against someone shooting them...I mean against the press and civilians.
And I don't mean against someone shooting them...I mean against the press and civilians.
One thing that's always intrigued me the years is the 2001s space suits - was the red yellow blue a homage to TOS?
http://borgdotcom.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/2001-color-coding.jpg
http://borgdotcom.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/2001-color-coding.jpg
Not likely, that work was done for 2001 before Star Trek went on the air.
It should be noted that the use of different colors to denote different jobs in the Navy was hardly a starfleet invention:
See also
http://www.doncio.navy.mil/CHIPS/ArticleDetails.aspx?id=4465
See also
http://www.doncio.navy.mil/CHIPS/ArticleDetails.aspx?id=4465
While I kinda appreciate them, I also think they forget that the first rule has to be viewer identification. All those pins and medals look nice, but they're far less easily identifiable to a lay-man than the TOS or TNG rank structure. Mind you, a lay-man probably wouldn't care, it's only us fans who obsess over such things.
My gut feeling on the TWOK uniforms is that they're too stylized. They work well for the feel Nick Meyer was going for in TWOK, they feel very much inspired by the British Navy in the 18th century (suitably updated in style) with all their flaps and pins, but for me they're just too stylized for everyday wear in the 23rd century. They're like a theatrical costume. I could buy them as a dress uniform, but I think they're kind of over the top for regular day-to-day duty. It would've been nice to have seen more variation.
^ I dunno. They're very easy to get into and out of. A whole lot more practical than the TMP costumes, that had to be beamed onto one!
The rank pins in those films aren't all that different than modern officer's pins. A few bars, oak leaves, birds, or stars.
It is the enlisted in Starfleet that are undefined as to rank (save Chief O'Brian) As far as I can tell there are no proper rank insignia on enlisted personel outside maybe Star Trek VI.
It is the enlisted in Starfleet that are undefined as to rank (save Chief O'Brian) As far as I can tell there are no proper rank insignia on enlisted personel outside maybe Star Trek VI.
Indeed, there is no difference in the TWOK insignia from modern American military insignia, but it is not as visibly striking in terms of being able to see them on screen. Say what you want about other insignia, but you can see them easily, either on the sleeves in a visible way, or on the neck, which is visible often enough due to showing actor's faces. Similar to the American military uniforms (again), where the officer's ranks are present on the collar.
From TWOK on to TUC, enlisted ratings are present, but not visible very well due to being the same size insignia as on the officer's rank bar, but down on the sleeve.
Enlisted insignia
Location on uniform
From TWOK on to TUC, enlisted ratings are present, but not visible very well due to being the same size insignia as on the officer's rank bar, but down on the sleeve.
Enlisted insignia
Location on uniform
The US rank devices evolved instead of being created all at once, and don't make much intuitive sense, except the admiral/general stars. The TWOK system doesn't look like something that would be created starting with a clean sheet, it just seems made-up. If Starfleet decided they needed metal pins for rank, it seems more likely that they would go with something that echoed the previous sleeve stripes, maybe with TMP-type stars for the admiral grades.
TMP did have some, too, a square on the shoulder tabs for CPO and a triangle for PO, IIRC. Not much, but a big improvement over TOS where everbody below JG wore the same uniform without rank insignia.
Perhaps it was the inclusion of the enlisted ranks that inspired the radical change to the new pin designs?
The enlisted's rank placement isn't very good. The shoulder is more visable and traditional for enlisted ranks. The officer's shoulder strap placement seems fine to me as it is visable, though only from one side (they also have a pin on the arm, but again that is difficult to see).
Perhaps Starfleet was trying to make it difficult to pick out who was what rank? Not sure why. Maybe to confuse the press or the Klingons? The standard stripe pattern and the older pin rank system (ENT and TNG onward) would be too well known and they wanted to confuse the increasingly hostile Klingons? Or they are having image problems with the press after the loss of several heavy cruisers in the late 2260s and then V'Ger comes to Earth, then who knows how things happen in the 70s with Starfleet. The Klingons are getting hostile, and Starfleet seems to be having issues (Kirk retiring early, trouble crewing the Enterprise later on under Spock, some hush hush research going on near the Mutara Sector.) Might be a reason for a total image change in the eye of some Fleet Admiral or administrator working for the Federation Council or the officer of the President. Or some under secretary of Starfleet.
The enlisted's rank placement isn't very good. The shoulder is more visable and traditional for enlisted ranks. The officer's shoulder strap placement seems fine to me as it is visable, though only from one side (they also have a pin on the arm, but again that is difficult to see).
Perhaps Starfleet was trying to make it difficult to pick out who was what rank? Not sure why. Maybe to confuse the press or the Klingons? The standard stripe pattern and the older pin rank system (ENT and TNG onward) would be too well known and they wanted to confuse the increasingly hostile Klingons? Or they are having image problems with the press after the loss of several heavy cruisers in the late 2260s and then V'Ger comes to Earth, then who knows how things happen in the 70s with Starfleet. The Klingons are getting hostile, and Starfleet seems to be having issues (Kirk retiring early, trouble crewing the Enterprise later on under Spock, some hush hush research going on near the Mutara Sector.) Might be a reason for a total image change in the eye of some Fleet Admiral or administrator working for the Federation Council or the officer of the President. Or some under secretary of Starfleet.
Shoulder epaulets are best although cuffs are simple and visible. I'd go for both. For some reason NuTrek doesn't give the women any visible rank insignia at all. That's a disaster during red alert. Highly visible is better. Whether you want to advertise rank on a field jacket is debatable. I'd say no. If you don't know whose on your landing party, you're already in trouble.
It kind of does, although loosely. The captain pin has three rungs (echoing TOS' 2 full stripes and 1 broken stripe), the commander pin has two rungs (2 full stripes), and the lieutenant pin is a single rung (1 full stripe). There might even be a connection between Kirk's 4-leaf admiral pin and the 4 stripes he initially wore in TMP.
Other pins, like ensign, seemed to have been made up later though.
Actually, the only pin designed later was the Lt. Cmdr. pin. So naturally fans started creating their own designs. One of these fan designs (published in Mr. Scott's Guide to the Enterprise) even made it into the official Encyclopedia (Cmdr. pin with a broken rung).
When Mr. Fletcher realized his omission he created one for Star Trek 4.
When Mr. Fletcher realized his omission he created one for Star Trek 4.
