Trek Returning to TV in 2017!

[Warped9]

Social commentary is never passe. Oftentimes a piece of entertainment can get someone thinking more effectively than any politician, talking head or written exposition could ever hope to.

 

[Greg Cox]

I wonder if this means the future films are in doubt? Last I heard, Trek 4 (14) was in the pipeline with the same cast, Kirk n Spock.

Given the star power in the cast and the fact that they have failed in the long term to generate interest in the larger franchise, I'd say it's inevitable their days are numbered, even if they do a fourth or even fifth picture.

How do you know this?

Indeed. And what exactly does billcosby mean about generating "interest in the larger franchise."

Let's see we're getting a third and probably fourth movie, which is just as good as the TNG movies did. The books are hitting the bestseller lists again, even though they're set in a different timeline. There's a flourishing line of new comic books, based on both the old and new series. We just got a lavish coffee-table book on Trek's costumes, as well as various other books from a variety of publishers. We're getting a brand-new TV series.

Yes, I'm sure that has nothing to do with the popularity of the new movies . . .

 

[Amaris]

"Measure of a Man" is a certainly a standout episode, but I also like "Where No Man Has Gone Before," "Pen Pals," "The Big Goodbye," "11001001," "The Arsenal of Freedom," "Unnatural Selection," and "The Royale," are all favorite S1 & S2 TNG episodes.

Also "Heart of Glory", "Conspiracy", "Skin of Evil", "Contagion", "Time Squared" and "Q, Who" are all excellent episodes.

Those are good episodes, though I'm not a fan of "Conspiracy" (I hate bugs ).

 

[Squiggy]

"Measure of a Man" is a certainly a standout episode, but I also like "Where No Man Has Gone Before," "Pen Pals," "The Big Goodbye," "11001001," "The Arsenal of Freedom," "Unnatural Selection," and "The Royale," are all favorite S1 & S2 TNG episodes.

Also "Heart of Glory", "Conspiracy", "Skin of Evil", "Contagion", "Time Squared" and "Q, Who" are all excellent episodes.

Those are good episodes, though I'm not a fan of "Conspiracy" (I hate bugs ).

You people are worse than Hitler.

 

[Jedman67]

BSG was lightyears better than Enterprise, and was a clear illustration of what Voyager should of been.

Yeah the show went slightly off the rails towards the end, but that understandable. The point is they raised the bar and then some.

Too bad it's rating were worse than 'Enterprise's'

...and it fell off the frakin bridge, not just the rails... and the closer was worse than DS9's.

The only thing they raised was the mindless glorification of those that think sex and character assassination is good writing and sci-fi.

If you've ever read any sci-fi literature (including any and all of the non-space opera works), you'd know that events and characterization like what was on the current BSG are a part of a lot of sci-fi novels. Heck, that's part of a lot of non-sci-fi literature, too. And a lot of sci-fi authors praised the current BSG highly, from what I hear (the most prominent of these being Harlan Ellison.)

I think that sense of drama is making its way into Congress.

Also "Heart of Glory", "Conspiracy", "Skin of Evil", "Contagion", "Time Squared" and "Q, Who" are all excellent episodes.

Those are good episodes, though I'm not a fan of "Conspiracy" (I hate bugs ).

You people are worse than Hitler.

That's a bit extreme. Hitler died nearly 20 years before TOS first aired.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Too bad it's rating were worse than 'Enterprise's'

...and it fell off the frakin bridge, not just the rails... and the closer was worse than DS9's.

The only thing they raised was the mindless glorification of those that think sex and character assassination is good writing and sci-fi.

If you've ever read any sci-fi literature (including any and all of the non-space opera works), you'd know that events and characterization like what was on the current BSG are a part of a lot of sci-fi novels. Heck, that's part of a lot of non-sci-fi literature, too. And a lot of sci-fi authors praised the current BSG highly, from what I hear (the most prominent of these being Harlan Ellison.)

I think that sense of drama is making its way into Congress.

Those are good episodes, though I'm not a fan of "Conspiracy" (I hate bugs ).

You people are worse than Hitler.

That's a bit extreme. Hitler died nearly 20 years before TOS first aired.

You people are worse than Melakon.

 

[Mudd]

Cable will do that.

Yeah, within its venue BSG was quite a bit more successful than Enterprise. That's why the latter is remembered as a failure and the former is not.

And, BTW, "I don't like the way it ended" does not equal "this was a bad show."

Enterprise is not remembered as a failure.

Yes it is, and especially so by the folks at the studio who write the checks.

The 1st 2 years of BSG were amazing, the last two were not. The "plan" was non-existent.

Fuck the Plan. No one cared.

 

[Quinton O'Connor]

BSG's a strange beast for me. Many of my favorite episodes, moments, are in the back half. But overall, yes, it's kind of a mess by halfway into "2.5".

 

[Greg Cox]

BSG's a strange beast for me. Many of my favorite episodes, moments, are in the back half. But overall, yes, it's kind of a mess by halfway into "2.5".

At its best, though, it could be incredibly intense--and better than the original by several orders of magnitude.

Mind you, I still prefer FARSCAPE . . ..

 

[fireproof78]

(Character Development)

Kirk's character in 09 is about potential. As Kor pointed out, Kirk is not reaching for anything. He is content sitting on his rear end, apparently causing trouble because is a "repeat offender" and doing nothing with his life, contributing nothing to society. The whole point of GR's vision (especially in TNG and oft repeated in DS9) was that humanity was all about bettering itself. Well, Kirk is not doing that-until Pike challenges him.

Here's my breakdown of Kirk in the movie:
1. Dropout. Meets Pike.
2. Macho Cadet. Cheats on exams, because he wants to.
3. Stows away on Enterprise. Pike appoints him FO
4. Saves the day, becomes Captain.
5. Credits.

I don't see Kirk bettering himself. He's the same jerk at 5 as he is at 1, just slightly more mature and responsible. He hasn't earned command of the enterprise, it was given to him because the plot demanded so. To me, it felt forced.
Had he been a bit older, and less sarcastic, and ALREADY an officer, I'd probably be more willing to suspend my disbelief. Since it's off topic, i'm happy to say no more on the subject. And anyone who disagrees with me is obviously a potato head

Being from Idaho, "potato head" is an honorific I'll wear with pride

I think Trek 09 shows Kirk where he was, as well as insights in to what he could become. It is the potential and raw material that Pike sees that make him take interest in him and invest in him so that he can reach his potential.

I agree that Kirk isn't there, and that he didn't earn the Enterprise. STID is about Kirk earning it, and that is why I love his arc. Pike's mentorship and that relationship start building Kirk in 09 and continue on in STID, culminating in Kirk facing the "no win" situation and sacrificing himself for the sake of his crew.

But, I think the commentary is more about making a great leader, rather than saying that Kirk is a great leader. I think Pike and Sarek provide the mentor role that both Spock and Kirk need to grow and that growth and change comes through in the sequel.

However, we are off topic. I'll just add that social commentary in 09 and STID are things that I could write papers about in my field and that's why I love it. Further comments can be directed to me via PM

BSG's a strange beast for me. Many of my favorite episodes, moments, are in the back half. But overall, yes, it's kind of a mess by halfway into "2.5".

Hands down, my favorite is "Bastille Day." It shows Apollo at his best, is probably the most interesting struggle between the military, the people and the civilian government and has an interesting conclusion.

I wish they kept more of that storyline for Apollo.

BSG's a strange beast for me. Many of my favorite episodes, moments, are in the back half. But overall, yes, it's kind of a mess by halfway into "2.5".

At its best, though, it could be incredibly intense--and better than the original by several orders of magnitude.

Mind you, I still prefer FARSCAPE . . ..

Indeed. I also like Stargate.

 

[Quinton O'Connor]

Mind you, I still prefer FARSCAPE . . ..

Farscape's the show that got me to start posting on the internet. The things I'd [claim to] do to get that series back again, man.

 

[cooleddie74]

The Royale demonstrates that Trek can have plots out of the Twilight Zone.

An underrated episode of TNG that deserves more love than it gets. I love the creepy atmosphere of the plot even if it revolves around an advanced alien race's interpretation of an old Earth pulp novel with cheesy, one-dimensional characters.

 

[Tim Walker]

The Royale demonstrates that Trek can have plots out of the Twilight Zone.

An underrated episode of TNG that deserves more love than it gets. I love the creepy atmosphere of the plot even if it revolves around an advanced alien race's interpretation of an old Earth pulp novel with cheesy, one-dimensional characters.

Clever and surreal, it was one of the most intriguing TNG episodes.

 

[Autistoid]

BSG's a strange beast for me. Many of my favorite episodes, moments, are in the back half. But overall, yes, it's kind of a mess by halfway into "2.5".

Well if you read the naturalistic sci fi manifesto, basically it's easy to understand how shit hit the fan so fing hard.

They basically made up a set of rules which were amazing in the first two seasons, and then bam they contradicted every single rule they ran with in the initial season.

http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Naturalistic_science_fiction


You can read this and easily understand why bsg was so good, and why it was ruined by not following it's own rules.

Basically although claiming not to do so, the entire end run of the cylons became one wierd sequence of ass pulling deux machina.

On top of that there was the idea that characters should basically function like regular people which they largely did in the first 20 episodes, than by the 3rd season virtually every single character in the show, had developed a form of borderline personality disorder.



Regardless that first season changed people's vision of what sci fi could be.

 

[lurok]

TFF is one of those Trek stories where it either hits all the right emotional buttons and reminds you why you love the characters or is so bad that it makes you wish you could punch the film in the balls.

Probably the most succinct summation of TFF (one of my fave ST films) I've ever read

 

[Nightdiamond]

Totally. What the producers of the new show need to realize is that regardless of the format they choose, one of the biggest advantages of being in the prime universe (rather than the gimmick-verse, or even an agnostic-verse) is the richness of the world that has already been created for them.

Rather than just a name, the prime-universe is in actuality a universe - a huge world that has been created by and added to by countless imaginative and creative minds over five decades. It would simply be illogical to try and expand either the two-dimensional JJverse, or some universe-agnostic new show that exists in a vacuum.

It can still be prime-universe without having to be bogged down with paying homage to every single nuance of every show's canon which came before it, but c'mon.... all that's required is some simple continuity.

This is a grand opportunity to create something fresh, for everyone, and can honestly bridge the divide between new audiences and primers that occurred with those ****** movies.

I'm going to point this out, and it's very important for it to be received properly, so everyone needs to focus:

It's not a real universe.
It doesn't exist in real life and never will.
It exists to service the plot, whatever it may be.
It is not immutable, it is not constant.

It is a fabrication.

TL;DR - Sorry, Benny Russell, it's not real. In fact...

-----------

You know what that means? It means that the Abrams universe is just as "real" as the Prime universe.

The same things can be said about the Terminator and Terminator II movies.

Look what happened to the last Terminator movie after they did a reboot and made a lot of changes to the storyline.

People like to read a good novel, they know it's fiction, but it doesn't mean they'll automatically accept just any changes made in the next one, just because it's ---fiction..

There's no guarantee.

 

[Grendelsbayne]

The spinoffs had obligatory action scenes, but many times they seemed to be an afterthought or filler.

And there was never any risk. The closest we ever got was Locutus but that was because Stewart didn't know if he wanted to come back.

But in the end, in the very very very, space magic happened and the Cube just blowed up.

That's been one of BermanTrek's biggest flaws. There was never really any danger. If someone actually died then there'd be some alternate copy beamed in/crossed over/cloned/or it was all a dream.

But the big shows today, the stars aren't safe. I won't spoil who dies in Game of Thrones, but it's pretty much everyone you like. Major stars also die in House of Cards.

If there's some risk or danger in the new show, say the captain dies a couple of episodes in and stays dead then that could give Trek some oomph that's hasn't been there since TSFS.

Exactly what risk are you referring to? You mean the time that Spock died and was then immediately resurrected at the low, low cost of Kirk's son (a secondary character with less than an hour of screentime) and the destruction of the enterprise (which was also very quickly replaced with another ship that looked exactly the same)? The time on TOS when... no main character died, ever? How about the time on TNG when Tasha Yar was killed and stayed dead (except for a single time travel/alt. universe story years later)? Or when DS9 killed off Jadzia Dax and replaced her with Ezri for the rest of the show?

No Trek has ever been inclined to include much risk in their shows - Yar and Dax were motivated primarily by external factors unrelated to creative content, and other examples, like Kirk's death in Generations or Data's death in Nemesis or Trip's on Enterprise, were kept to the very last minute as a sort of dramatic farewell. But by any objective measure, 90s Trek had more risk than TOS did, not less. And the new movies have not had any real risk, yet, either (hello, magic blood...)

 

[Autistoid]

TFF is one of those Trek stories where it either hits all the right emotional buttons and reminds you why you love the characters or is so bad that it makes you wish you could punch the film in the balls.

Probably the most succinct summation of TFF (one of my fave ST films) I've ever read

To some extent.

If half loved it, and half hated it, I'd think that is totally fair.

As someone who is of the half that liked it, I think that day is shrinking.

The movies were full of some of the most shamless shit, that was passable because everything else was so good.


Deuxmachina crap.

Convoluted time travel that served only the plot and will have no purpose in the future other than just a huge problem for the writers.

Scotty deuxmachining transporters than can go across the galaxy as if the requirement for ion interferance wasn't enough to trump this technology in tos.

The whole mockery that has been made of starfleet as basically they will let anyone be captain.

Your minds go into this severe defense mode any time these issues get brought up..

You can't adress them, you have nothign to say than it's just FUN. Like someone FUn is the excuse for shit.

 

[TheSubCommander]

I'd just like to interject that personally, I am more excited about Axanar than I am for Star Trek Beyond and the upcoming series. But at the same time, I am pulling for Star Trek Beyond and the upcoming Star Trek series to be even better than Axanar, because I want to have a reason to be pulled back into "official" Star Trek. I want to be wowed beyond what fan films have to offer at the moment. I think that is the biggest problem I have with STID, at least in retrospect: the 14 minute short that served as a kick starter for Axanar was far more interesting to me than all of STID, despite the awesome special effects, and the (on paper) good actors cast (Cumberbatch, Weller). I think that if Axanar, a fan film, does Star Trek better than Star Trek Beyond or the new Star Trek series, I will be done with "official" Star Trek. That's not a criticism, that is actually me stating I want to be so blown away by the Star Trek Beyond and the new series, and that both productions make me love the Star Trek franchise the same way the TOS movies and TNG & DS9 did, all those years ago.

BSG's a strange beast for me. Many of my favorite episodes, moments, are in the back half. But overall, yes, it's kind of a mess by halfway into "2.5".

BSG was pretty awesome in FIRST RUN.

Rewatchability after season 2 SUCKS.

...Oh and the whole reference to a Jimi Hendrix song and the final 5 is just absolutely silly to watch these days.

 

[Amaris]

TFF is one of those Trek stories where it either hits all the right emotional buttons and reminds you why you love the characters or is so bad that it makes you wish you could punch the film in the balls.

Probably the most succinct summation of TFF (one of my fave ST films) I've ever read

To some extent.

If half loved it, and half hated it, I'd think that is totally fair.

As someone who is of the half that liked it, I think that day is shrinking.

The movies were full of some of the most shamless shit, that was passable because everything else was so good.


Deuxmachina crap.

Convoluted time travel that served only the plot and will have no purpose in the future other than just a huge problem for the writers.

Scotty deuxmachining transporters than can go across the galaxy as if the requirement for ion interferance wasn't enough to trump this technology in tos.

The whole mockery that has been made of starfleet as basically they will let anyone be captain.

Your minds go into this severe defense mode any time these issues get brought up..

You can't adress them, you have nothign to say than it's just FUN. Like someone FUn is the excuse for shit.

They've been addressed ad nauseam in the past. At some point, people wisely realize that nothing will get across and it's best just to know they enjoyed the film, which is why these films are made. You don't like it? Great. There's nothing for anyone to defend based solely on your dislike of the film.