TOS Enterprise Internals

[yotsuya]

Got a few revisions and additions done today. I added the bridge and impulse engines to both. I added the hanger to the TMP. I added the deflector dish hardware spaces. I revised the warp drive deuterium input. I found that the box at the bottom of the TMP shaft is labeled matter/antimatter mix chamber. I added the main engine room to the TOS Enterprise and revised the pipes. I found the perfect identifier for that item. It is the auxilary power reactor. I added a second one at the back of the saucer and a mini-engine room (on deck 6 not 7 and if you don't look too much at the ceiling, it would fit there). I added the same type of structures on the TMP Enterprise. I placed it right below the horizontal shaft because I though that the shaft supports would make an excellent power bleed mechanism to pull power from the reaction. Except at the top and bottom, that is they only place the shaft touches anything before heading up the pylons.

In any case, here are the latest edits. Enjoy.

And where the TOS Enterprise has two distinct engine rooms, the TMP Enterprise has the vertical shaft area where different engineering operations can be conducted at different levels making specific rooms unnecessary.

 

[Henoch]

Nice. I think your deck placements are superior. 11 decks in saucer where deck 11 is a crowded equipment space for the phasers/torps and sensors hardware. Overall, I think I count 23 decks (I lose count thru neck a little - doesn't everyone?, so, correct me if I'm wrong), where the bottom deck is like the ship's bilge, mostly for gas/fluid storage tanks.

Since you identified the pipe structure as the auxiliary power reactor, I get the feeling you don't think it is needed for M/AM reactor operations; a dunsel part? My head cannon keeps the full length pipes as intended by Matt Jeffries. Designing a force perspective item and then saying that it isn't but it only looks that way makes no sense. I guess I'm in the camp that won't give up on the full size pipes.

 

[yotsuya]

My problem with it being a forced perspective is that it rises up too much. It should slodpe down and back but not up from the bottom. That indicates to me that it's not a huge long item. But I did draw it longer than the set by about twice as much. I also included a second one. And far from a dunsel part, I consider it an integral component of the power system, one that was used quite a bit during the series

 

[BK613]

FWIW, if you follow the TMP strut shafts from the nacelles to the centerline of the secondary hull, they actually intersect one level lower than on Probert's TMP cross-section. In order for Probert's to work, you will need horizontal runs between the Engine Room V and the strut shafts. Just an FYI.

 

[yotsuya]

That is true, but you can also curve the shafts a bit and have them end up on the right deck. The turbolift placement will dictate how I handle that.

Right now I'm trying to use the TMP Enterprise to make sense of the TOS Enterprise. The TMP design evolved from the Phase II design by Matt Jefferies so I'm looking for parallels and finding a lot.

 

[yotsuya]

A few tweaks to the movie version. I found a good elevation of the Klingon Bridge so I stuck it is as the torpedo room (same set) and sketched in the torpedo tubes and the venting. I added era appropriate shuttles to scale. I changed the line color to match the TOS drawing. And I know the topic is the TOS Enterprise internals, but as I am basing a lot of my decisions on the TMP Enterprise (and in the case of the hanger partly on the Star Trek V hanger), it does all relate.

 

[Mytran]

The different colours really help to break up and compartmentalise the different areas on board ship

The secondary hull seems to line up with the windows much better than the saucer - those levels are all over the place! This is not a criticism against you BTW - it's just the bizarre placement on the model itself.

Since the placement of the Engine Room will preclude any sort of forward corridor, will access be via port/starboard hatches instead?

 

[yotsuya]

One thing I've noticed is that windows on the bottom of the saucer are never going to line up as usable windows inside. The wall angle is just too steep. So I haven't worried about it much. Having them been down at deck height actually makes them more useful than if they were at normal eyeline. The same is true with the windows along the top of the secondary hull of the TOS Enterprise.

 

[Henoch]

For the secondary hull, the decks need not be continuous at the same spacings. The outer portions may be at different heights/spacings than the inner core portions. Short flights of stairs or ladders would transition between the varying levels fore-to-aft and core-to-side. When I see a 18 inch drop in a row of windows, I put in a two step stair transition someplace in a logical placement, like near a pressure hull bulkhead so everything within that pressure hull segment is at the same level. On old ships like the Enterprise, stairs are not design defects, they're...charming character.

 

[BK613]

There is a discussion in one of Donny's threads in Fan Art you might be interested in. Regarding decks and their content.
https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/donnys-refit-enterprise-interiors-version-2-0.297266/page-26

 

[yotsuya]

For the secondary hull, the decks need not be continuous at the same spacings. The outer portions may be at different heights/spacings than the inner core portions. Short flights of stairs or ladders would transition between the varying levels fore-to-aft and core-to-side. When I see a 18 inch drop in a row of windows, I put in a two step stair transition someplace in a logical placement, like near a pressure hull bulkhead so everything within that pressure hull segment is at the same level. On old ships like the Enterprise, stairs are not design defects, they're...charming character.

No, they don't need to be, but in the secondary hull, there are no ports that really allow for such things. Some have used the spacing to place the engineering deck higher because of the lower side decks (the ladders in TOS engineering go up about 6.5 feet), but the other ports don't agree with that. I prefer to see the ship as pretty standard deck heights (at least on each individual deck) with some sections that are odd for specific reasons. The ports on the side tell a story of very regular deck heights. Especially in the TMP Enterprise.

 

[Henoch]

No, they don't need to be, but in the secondary hull, there are no ports that really allow for such things. Some have used the spacing to place the engineering deck higher because of the lower side decks (the ladders in TOS engineering go up about 6.5 feet), but the other ports don't agree with that. I prefer to see the ship as pretty standard deck heights (at least on each individual deck) with some sections that are odd for specific reasons. The ports on the side tell a story of very regular deck heights. Especially in the TMP Enterprise.

I think we are on the same page, sort of. I'm just looking at the TOS ship. Some the windows actually stagger a little in the TOS hull, so, if you want the same head height in the windows on that same deck, then the deck needs to stagger the same amount. I'm thinking that some of the core/internal deck spacing may benefit from some irregular spacing. For one example, the deflector dish is centered between two decks, so, this can be adjusted to help with equipment and floor levels. Another is the area under the EMM to give more ceiling height, so that floor would be lower than the floor of the engine room by 1.0 to 2.5 feet. Two ten foot tall decks may run around the 20 foot tall engine room with its 6.5 foot tall sub-level. The hangar/shuttlebay would have a complete different deck spacing from the rest of the hull, especially with the tapered stern. The secondary hull could be a maze of corridors and rooms to functionally fit around the massive equipment that makes the starship go. Less equipment is next to the hull sides, so, more orderly deck spacings fit.

 

[yotsuya]

I am running into issues with some of the sets on both ships. The biggest issue I am having is with the turbolifts in the TMP Enterprise. Now, what I consider my two main sources for this project are The Making of Star Trek (my 1976 copy), and David Kimble's cutaway poster from 1979 (I have a tattered but clear 1979 copy and I've pulled off the call outs labeling all the parts. My next sources are Jefferies cross section (also found in TMOST) and Andrew Probert's drawings and artwork for TMP. So I'm trying to fit the sets into those areas. Most are easy. The TMP corridors fit like a dream, as does the man engineering area. The TOS corridors need a bit of a trim to fit, but that was my intention. That agrees with TMOST. 11 decks in the saucer. Though in both versions I have made the lower decks more machinery than crew station areas. Some things have to be tweaked. The Rec deck has to be shorter and longer to work. I'm going to put a similar rec area in multiple places on both ships (with the Conscience of the King theater in the aft port location where there are no ports to speak of and a corresponding one on the TMP Enterprise with smaller rec areas at the locations of the other ports).

While the main engineering deck fits well and agrees with the cutaway poster, the deck above, which on the set the same area, in the ship it has to be much narrower. Plus I'm debating about the control chamber seen in Star Trek II. They built it on that deck because that was really the only logical place to build the set, but in placing it on the ship, I think at the bottom of the shaft makes more sense. Kimble labeled the box at the bottom of the shaft as the mix chamber and the high energy thingy that Spock had to fix (not dilithium crystals - at least not on the outside - that was the reused prop as the BOP cyrystal in TVH) should be down near the mix chamber. That seem to be a good location and then it was there the whole time and not a convenient addition for TWOK. We can barely see the horizontal shaft in the background of some of the shots.

For the TOS ship, I'm putting in 2 engine rooms. One was referenced in dialog a bunch of times and in case of saucer separation the saucer needs its own engine room. The solution for this in the TMP enterprise was easy since in the TMP design all the control panels are located around the vertical shaft, it is easy to add more controls around the shaft after it is in the part the stays with the saucer.

Andrew Probert drew two pictures of saucer separation for TMP. One of them shows a round opening. And while that was probably his intended loction for the turbolift, it is at odds with the lcoation of main engineering. Plus main engineering has that troublesome door to a corridor that can't possibly exist. However that is the perfect location (it fits to the inch) for the turbolift shaft. Where I'm putting the turbolift, Probert's drawing has a square hatch. when you consider that the turbolift is probably pressurized (as we do see in ST:V), it would have to be sealed during separation. So that fits.

Thoughts?

 

[yotsuya]

So where that last post was leading, in part, to the phasers. I'm leaning toward what In A Mirror Darkly did with the Defiant's phasers. The main forward phasers are in the lower dome and a single aft phaser is in the aft dome over the hanger. This fits with where the effects team kept having the phasers fire from. Before I go that route, I thought I'd solicit feedback on the idea. The photon torpedo (singlular) is easy, it is center on the lower ring directly in front (there is a small bump there). Either there or just above that spot. Again that is where the series FX team had it firing from. This would match the series and the model (as the model has no obvious signs of weapons). The top dome doesn't work for another phaser because of the bridge below it. That small tube extending from the middle of the lower dome would be either a sensor or part of the targeting system.

I've also come up with a fun security measure in the TOS Enterprise. The Turbolift can't go through the middle of Engineering so there is a tube on either side of the warp core connecting the main shaft at the front of the secondary hull/neck to a tube at the aft end (that services the hanger).

One of the issue I have is if that window over the hanger is actually a control booth or if that function is handled by the two side booths within the hanger. If that aft dome is a phaser then the window would have to be something unmanned.

 

[yotsuya]

And I was just having a delightful conversation about the size of the TOS shuttle (with someone who has been inside the actual set piece) and realized that the 22' version is plenty large enough for a shuttlecraft. When you compare it to modern vehicles, it is equivalent to the Ford Transit cargo/passenger van which in passenger mode can have 4 rows of seating (same as the shuttle) and space for cargo in the back (room for a tiny storage compartment in the back of the shuttle) and it is only 2 inches longer. Not very comfortable on a long voyage, but as we saw in The Menagerie, they aren't intended for long voyages.

Here is a picture of a family with the Ford van - https://cdn-images-1.medium.com/max/2000/1*3HLMYUAbSyVSwcCCJPGY4A.jpeg

And here are the shuttle and van in scale:

 

[Mytran]

And I was just having a delightful conversation about the size of the TOS shuttle (with someone who has been inside the actual set piece) and realized that the 22' version is plenty large enough for a shuttlecraft. When you compare it to modern vehicles, it is equivalent to the Ford Transit cargo/passenger van which in passenger mode can have 4 rows of seating (same as the shuttle) and space for cargo in the back (room for a tiny storage compartment in the back of the shuttle) and it is only 2 inches longer. Not very comfortable on a long voyage, but as we saw in The Menagerie, they aren't intended for long voyages.

Here is a picture of a family with the Ford van - https://cdn-images-1.medium.com/max/2000/1*3HLMYUAbSyVSwcCCJPGY4A.jpeg

And here are the shuttle and van in scale:

I'm absolutely fine with the Enterprise carrying a shuttle the size of the actual prop too.
However, as you said a shuttle that size is absolutely impractical for long journeys (such as we saw in Metamorphosis). Therefore, I would propose that the Enterprise also carried at least one 30' shuttle for use in such circumstances.

 

[Henoch]

Kirk said on screen it is a 24 foot shuttle in the Galileo Seven, and Kirk wouldn't lie to me. I'm cramming 24 foot shuttles into my internals come hell or high water.

Therefore, I would propose that the Enterprise also carried at least one 30' shuttle for use in such circumstances.

And they are all called "Galileo". After getting destroyed, maybe its replacements weren't all the same size, even though the same varying scaled models (shuttlebay mini, space scene model, external stage prop, internal stage set) were used for all of them.

Shuttlecraft References
Here are a list of all Enterprise shuttlecraft references for TOS Episodes (in production order):

1. The Galileo Seven -
   1. Galileo NCC-1701/7. Destroyed.
   2. Columbus NCC-1701/?. Recovered.
2. The Menagerie, Part I - Starbase 11/Shuttlecraft 1. Stored in hangar.
3. Metamorphosis - Galileo NCC-1701/7. Recovered. (Obvious replacement. Did Kirk keep the Starbase 11 shuttle and just repaint it; he needed a new one and Fake-Mendiz wouldn't need a return trip home?)
4. The Doomsday Machine - Unnamed Shuttlecraft NCC-1701/?. Destroyed. (Columbus?)
5. Journey to Babel - Galileo NCC-1701/7. Recovered.
6. The Immunity Syndrome - Galileo NCC-1701/7. Recovered. (Damaged?)
7. Let That Be Your Last Battlefield - Stolen from Starbase 4. Stored in hangar. (Canned special effect rotating on hangar deck shows it identified as Galileo NCC-1701/7. Maybe they were just shuffling around the ship’s shuttles to make room for the new shuttle, or maybe E previously dropped it off at Starbase 4 for repairs after the space ameba/antimatter blast, and Lokai conveniently returns it to E - small galaxy theorem.)
8. The Way to Eden - Galileo II NCC-1701/7. Recovered. (Another replacement or just correcting the naming issue from Metamorphosis period once it gets fully repaired with a new paint job.)

Two shuttlecraft destroyed; one definitely Galileo. Only in its last appearance in S3 does the Galileo get renamed Galileo II NCC-1701/7.

 

[David cgc]

The various unnamed shuttles were, well, named in the new effects for TOS done for the remastering. In your list, new info *'d;

1. *The Galileo Seven -
   1. Galileo NCC-1701/7. Destroyed.
   2. Columbus NCC-1701/2. Recovered.
2. *The Menagerie, Part I - Picasso SB11-1201/1. Stored in hangar.
3. Metamorphosis - Galileo NCC-1701/7. Recovered.
4. *The Doomsday Machine - Einstein NCC-1701/6
5. Journey to Babel - Galileo NCC-1701/7. Recovered.
6. The Immunity Syndrome - Galileo NCC-1701/7. Recovered. (Damaged?)
7. *Let That Be Your Last Battlefield - da Vinci SB4-0314/2.
8. The Way to Eden - Galileo II NCC-1701/7. Recovered.

 

[yotsuya]

I am definitely not worrying about names, but good to know that the remastered version at least added a little variety.

I'm trying to decide some of the hanger features. In TOS that turntable turned, but it never went up or down. Do I stick with the old convention that it is also an elevator or go with the twin elevator system in TMP. That would facilitate cargo handling as well and leave the deck under the hanger free for as many shuttles as I can pack in.

 

[Henoch]

In TOS that turntable turned, but it never went up or down. Do I stick with the old convention that it is also an elevator or go with the twin elevator system in TMP. That would facilitate cargo handling as well and leave the deck under the hanger free for as many shuttles as I can pack in.

My same thoughts. The only reference that it is also an elevator is on the early Enterprise hangar sketches. Nothing on-screen. If the elevator is in the down position, then there should be a huge square floor hatch to seal the hole. Also, there's little head room under the turn-table - bad design especially for the 23rd century.

I also noticed that when ever anyone enters or exits the shuttlebay, there is no yellow circle nor red square nor floor tracks; only a grey circle. The original miniature hangar model looks to me like the circle was always grey and never yellow. The tracks may not be visible from the airlock door; but the red square is missing. This suggests that the shuttle is moved (apparently quickly) to another spot for loading and unloading across from an airlock room (~24' length x 6' deep). I'd like to think they move it into a smaller garage behind the hangar deck which is faster to re-pressurize. It also lets you load, unload and service the shuttle even with the big doors open to space.