Top Ten Reasons I Hate Enterprise

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Enterprise' started by where'sSaavik?, Aug 29, 2003.

  1. Jack Bauer

    Jack Bauer Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Hey, just ask the millions of viewers that watch the three Law and Order series each week and you'll hear the samething. You do have a point that many fans see arcs as something holy when arcs can either spell success, doom or mediocrity. Contrary to the widely held opinion it guarantees neither quality or ratings success.
     
  2. James Dixon

    James Dixon Rear Admiral Newbie

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    Stewey For President!

    That aside...

    I never cared for that design because I'd even say that it wasn't retro Enough... Of course my take on the timeline differs a bit, setting the launch of the Constitution class and even the UFP's founding some years earlier than what's accepted these days... With Mankind first taking to deep space in the 21st Century not the middle of the 22nd...

    My take on an NX-01 (even that's a stupid name if you ask me) would probably be more of something like the crude vessels depicted in the old Spaceflight Chronology book... In fact, taking into account the era, I'd even go as far as working forwards from a DY-series hull... Strap on a warp engine (NOT a TNG or TOS styled nacelle, but something a big bulkier and cruder)... And maybe altering the "conning tower" module into perhaps a bubble-shaped command module type hull... And taking it from there...
     
  3. James Dixon

    James Dixon Rear Admiral Newbie

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    I HATE that retarded word "Fanon"--it's like a BAD TERM invented on the fly to discredit Fandom when placed alongside the even more retarded (Hail Paramount's Pocket Books!) word "Canon"...

    Continuity is the lifeblood of any Good series, SF or otherwise... ESPECIALLY for a generation-old universe like Star Trek's with a massive fan base... And it's goes triple for a series CLAIMING to be a prequel to the Original series which started it all...

    You just Can't flush continuity out the airlock WITHOUT a massive fan reaction...

    That's simple enough to understand, isn't it?

    Now regarding your favorite new vocabulary word... "Fanom" has had it's own Ideas about what an early Trek universe was all about, and it's of course been in-line with what we call Common Sense... This includes details such as a starship NOT named Enterprise, a ship NOT armed with phasers and photon torpedoes (despite what how they blur the names), a ship NOT functioning with 24th Century technobabble (totally ignoring TOS' era), and a starship which should Differ Considerably with the designs of Modern Trek Star Fleet vessels...

    So let's see, in "The Cage" they're using Lasers and on E they're using Phase Guns... Phase Guns to Lasers to Phasers... Doesn't seem to Flow right to me... And these Phase Guns seem to do Lots more than mere Lasers, what with the stun setting and all...

    Even at this Basic tech design level, Continuity isn't holding up...

    It becomes even more absurd when you look at the Phase Pistols emitting beams which LOOK AND SOUND JUST LIKE 24TH CENTURY PHASER BEAMS! And in "The Expanse" the ship gets Photon(ic) Torpedoes WHICH LOOK AND SOUND JUST LIKE 24TH CENTURY PHOTON TORPEDOES!

    But I won't stop there, taking on the "look" of Enterprise... The uniforms, while actually quite original for Trek, use the same 24th Century rank pip system...

    Then E gives us Ferengi and Borg who conveniently don't name themselves and vanish without leaving a trace... Right... And all sorts of MODERN goodies which Shouldn't be heard or seen like fully-functional state-of-the-art CLOAKING DEVICES which even the ROMULANS have... I've never had a problem with the Romulans and warp drive, as you know, but Cloaks are OUT... And as every season goes by, episodes like "Balance of Terror" and movies like "First Contact" are hit Hard by careless E writing and gimmicks...
    I criticized "First Contact" and ST IV for how carelessly the characters handled altering the timeline... "Regeneration" though just takes the cake though for "First Contact" making Picard out to be incompetent... And each season seems to make Kirk and Spock look like fools who don't know their own history in "Balance of Terror"... (A war fought over a century ago with primitive atomic weapons--E's now got photon torpedoes--and Kirk, Spock, and everyone else's gaping over the concept of an invisible ship)...

    (Again, WHERE'S TOS? Answer: E's a Prequel to TNG not TOS! When this series finishes its run, continuity-wise TOS will have to be Discarded or else THIS series will have to be ignored as a prequel)...

    Then let's take it another step with the Alien Races we have on E... The Klingons are here, with their MODERN ridged heads, tiny brains, and ships and tech Consistent with TNG's Era NOT with the TOS era... Heck, they even had a Klingon Bird of Prey stated as having warp 6 capacity in "Judgment"... We can call this Discontinuity... But oh, if you want to factor-in "Fanon" then it gets worse (that is, that there's a different form of Klingonese in use during this era as well as Klingon script--but let's not go That far... I really don't Have To to prove my point! In short I'll only say that Klingons meeting Humans is decades away and shouldn't play a part at this stage in Trek history)...

    The Vulcans are another gem... All this crap E's given us about only certain Vulcans capable of performing mind melds and how they're black listed minorities... But, hey, these guys don't even look like our old Vulcans either as they lack the yellow-green tinted flesh or act the part, are emotional, hold grudges, are hypocritical, are working AGAINST Earth's technological progress, and in short act like Romulans... Maybe they are... In an early E episode, T'Pol said that sometimes Vulcan's skies are Blue... BLUE! We've seen Vulcan with Red-orange-yellow skies but never blue... Methinks she's a ROMULAN SPY and's talking about Romulus!

    Andorians now are Blondes with new-fangled antennae which wiggle and jiggle like worms... Unlike the white-haired Andorians we've actually seen on TOS with static "horn" antennae...

    And need I mention the Tellarites? OH, GENE! How difficult is it to make pig-faced aliens? The Borays of Battlestar Galactica looked more like Tellarites than the hairy FRIENDLY AND CHATTY Tellarites we were presented with on E... And the HANDS are quite unlike the hoof-like ones we saw on TOS... I guess it wasn't in their Budget for E! Tellarites are always argumentive, it's a Continuity-given fact...from Sarek himself...

    If you take all of the above into account, regarding the relative tech of the different alien civilizations in Trek on E, a picture is formed... The Vulcans and Klingons have the latest and greatest ships and technology... Kronos is just 4 days from Earth at NX-01's max speed (NOT that of Klingons and Vulcans ships)... Earth is only now taking to deep space after a century of having the Vulcans restrict their developments... All other known interstellar civilizations have already been Out There with their own warp ships...

    And now we're supposed to believe that this backwards, nothing-world named Earth will turn the tables and end up as the capital world of this Federation they'll be founding in a few years time...

    Give me a break!

    But if you want me to talk "Fanon" and, more specifically, how this guy named Gene Roddenberry envisioned the early years of the Trek Universe... This guy from Alpha Centauri (either a native or a colonist) named Zefram Cochrane invented this faster than light drive which enabled Earth to explore neighboring star systems... It gave Earth the edge as these other civilizations were sublight explorers... The warp drive system enabled trade and cooperation between Earth, Vulcan, Andor, Tellar, and Alpha Centauri and from here a Federation was founded... You can get the gist of this from "Metamorphosis"... And the old (now-contradicted) Spaceflight Chronology book gives you an idea of how things were said to have progressed...

    So in short, Vulcan was an overlord over Earth... And Earth wasn't a nobody-world, the last to receive warp drive and the last to invent the wheel...


    Now look me in the eye and tell me they're playing True To TOS and Respect Continuity... You honestly can't...

    This is why I always say that FANS CARE more for Trek than TPTB do... And why we have this schism in fandom today...
     
  4. Galactus

    Galactus Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    This is the one that I hope is not a big thing on the haters of ENT. It is silly beyond belief.
     
  5. C.E. Evans

    C.E. Evans Admiral Admiral

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    Initially I disliked ENT solely because I generally hated prequels, but now I take it back...

    When you think about, ENT has done more harm than good to the franchise.

    Has it brought in new viewers? Not really--or at least, none that would stay past the the initial few episodes. All Trek shows eventually drop off sharply towards their end, but ENT was sinking like a stone early in its second season...

    Has it alienated a large part of the fanbase? Yes. Don't kid yourself--there's a lot of Trekkers out there that grew up with TOS (either during its initial NBC run or in second-run syndication), and then went into the later series. I don't think it was wise of Berman to sort to piss off most of the longtime diehard Trekkers in lieu of a larger general/casual audience that never manifested itself.

    The general decline of broadcast t.v. viewers over the past five years can't be denied, but it can't explain entirely why this show is floundering in the ratings so quickly. There must be at least ten million Trek fans (1 out of 30 people) in the U.S. alone--so why are roughly only a third of them watching ENT? I can see if the show was in its seventh season and was winding down, but...

    There's probably a lot of truth to this. Trek fans are legendary for memorizing and committing to memory even the most trivial-seeming piece of Trek lore. They created their own backstory of how Trek came into being based on many passing references in various episodes. Berman should have known that, and he should have known better than to muck around and dismiss the so-called "fanon." He should have known that was simply going to piss a lot of the core Trek fanbase off...

    The saddest truth to ENT is that there is absolutely nothing about this show that couldn't have been done in the 24th-Century. This series could have easily have been about an experienced starship captain and crew on their first deep-space mission together and seeing the final frontier with awe and wonder. And rather than bore us to death with alien-of-the-week storylines and a barely touched upon Birth of the Federation subplot (muddled with a Temporal Cold War subplot, mind you), Berman could have changed what people think about Trek without having to do this poorly-planned and executed prequel. The horrible aftermath of the DS9's Dominion War could have broken the concept of perfect Humans in the 24th-Century and reintroduced interpersonal conflict between the characters ala TOS. Berman could have shown us an aspect of the 24th-Century that we hadn't seen before--a less perfect one but still optimistic one...if he had the foresight and creativity to do that.

    For those that say the setting is unimportant--don't kid yourself. The setting is everything: it forms the universe that these characters inhabit and establishes the opportunity for drama. Imagine how much more devastating the Xindi attack would have been on 24th-Century Earth--especially in the aftermath of the horrors in the Dominion War. Imagine how it would have been for these so-called perfect Humans to realize that everything in their Universe isn't perfect and that they have to get their hands dirty again. Likewise, it could have been an issue that a better future is still something worth striving for...

    Hell, Berman could have still sexed up Trek in the 24th-Century--catsuits still exist, and a buxom female character cleavage would have done wonders...That would have pleased the clueless UPN network execs breathing down his neck telling him to "sex it up--that'll bring in ratings..."

    My number one reason for hating ENT:
    It just didn't have to be this way--none of it...
     
  6. Stewey

    Stewey Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    You speak a lot of sense here, personally feel that the Dominion war should have ended in defeat, and for the next series to rebuild the federation. Yes it's the andromeda premise re-written, but I think it would have worked brilliantly if Paramount has bought it instead of dismissing it.

    There would be a huge relaxation of Gene's rules, as there is no more federation. They could have had conflict galore, and perhaps have cast new crewmembers, how about a romulan, cardassian and a contingent of Klingon crew members in addition to humans Vulcans etc.

    It wouldn't be hercules in space like Andromeda, but it would give Paramount a chance to re-invent the Trek franchise, without mucking up the universe as it is now.
     
  7. ConnorLass

    ConnorLass Commander Red Shirt

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    What a lot of claxon-sounding, rants through a megaphone, posts!

    I suppose the prequel could have been what you wanted, Klingons who where just white guys blacked, (or browned), up, but I like to think most people have moved on from there. Typing this on a laptop attached to the internet I would laugh at Tippy and the boys holding out tricorders the size of sixties tape recorders and Hoshi listening in with a sparkplug in her ear, but it seems thats all some folk will accept.

    Maybe Archer and the guys should turn up at planets where some fool is masquerading as a greek god, or the special effects include some bloke thrashing about under a blanket, but the audience would tune out far quicker than at Enterprise at the insult to their intelligence. Lasers? <snork!> Why not just open the airlock and throw a stone!

    Enterprise is fine, thanks. Millions of people worldwide think so. Million's more don't. Just like every other programme on TV. I watched all of TOS in reruns, (although it's 20 years since I saw an episode), all of TNG, some of DS9, some of Voyager and all of Enterprise. I'm prepared to suspend disbelief, even make leaps of logic in all these shows, because I enjoy them. Thats all. Enterprise is not a documentary series, not a history series. It's a TV show. Well made, well acted and great fun to watch.

    Unless, it seems, carping and griping are all you can do... :rolleyes:
     
  8. TheInsideMan

    TheInsideMan Commodore Commodore

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    My #1 reason? Piss poor execution of the premise. A Trek show in the 22nd Century is going to make the fans think BOTF! Conflict! Less evolved humans! Earth putting itself together after World War III! Dangerous space! But ENT is content to do AOTW, which wouldn’t be so bad if we didn’t go through 7 years of this on Voyager.

    I was quite happy with Season One. Fight and Flight showed just how outclassed this crew were and how dangerous space could be (as did Silent Enemy). We had three Vulcan-Andorian episodes, something which could only be done with this premise. The TCW made a cool appearance in Cold Front and left more questions then answers – but that’s OK, cos the writers have it all figured out and know why Silik saved the ship, right? Dear Doctor was a good, pre-PD episode. Heck, we even had ‘messages from Earth’ in one episode (“A poop question, Sir?”) which acknowledged the fact that as far as Earth’s sons and daughters are considered, what NX-01 is up to should be of some interest.

    Then, Season 2. Looking average to really good after Dead Stop, but then came ANIS and a run of episodes which, really, could have taken place on Voyager. The Vulcan-Andorian relationship was non-existent until Cease Fire – in its place, we got ho-hum stuff like Precious Cargo and Dawn, followed by the return of the :borg: (Regeneration was a decent episode, but, the Borg? Here? On ENT? Why?). Not my father’s Star Trek? Yeah, right!

    Now, we have the Xindi. And a mission. Season Three has a direction and for that I’m grateful…but, what was wrong with the original premise? For me, ENT is at its best when it exploited that premise. There’s no need to swath Earth (the place which B & B want to ignore on ENT unless the ratings go down) when you’ve got the entire 22nd Century Star Trek playground to use.

    And before someone says “Chris, B & B didn’t promise you a BOTF” series, I ask, “why bother doing ENT in the 22nd Century then?” Really, what was the point (beyond selling advertising space on UPN) ??? Out of 26 S2 episodes, only 3 (Minefield, Cease Fire, Judgment) would have serious trouble being rewritten as a Voyager, Season 8 episode, IMO. (For example, swap the Tholians in Future Tense for an Alien race of the week). With the ship’s advanced tech and the type of stories being churned out, why not just set Series 5 after the ‘Shinzon Incident’ and be done with it?

    Steps off soapbox
     
  9. Machiavelligz

    Machiavelligz Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    James Dixon and Christopher Howell. Applause for hitting nail on the head.
     
  10. Admiral Buzzkill

    Admiral Buzzkill Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Glad to hear it.
     
  11. James Dixon

    James Dixon Rear Admiral Newbie

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    I just hope that the moderators don't hit Me on the head for "flaming" Enterprise and B&B...
     
  12. James Dixon

    James Dixon Rear Admiral Newbie

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    In light of "Trials and Tribble-ations" I don't think it's silly in the least... It's simply one more continuity problem among countless others...

    Maybe I'm not making myself clear on the Klingon problem...
    Klingons haven't only changed Physically from TOS to TNG, but they've changed in every other way as well... In the 24th Century, Klingons are short-tempered morons who seem to relish in giving and receiving pain, they're religious lunatics over Kahless, and are always boasting about Honor... There is equality among the sexes... TOS Klingons, on the other hand, were shrewd and intelligent adversaries... They had no honor as such and had no problems in stabbing enemies in the back... They were moderate-tempered and didn't need vicious ridges and fancy blades to intimidate... Women in the TOS Klingon Empire don't get far, Mara being an exception and Kang's consort...

    Treknically, they're generally believed to be two different Klingon races...
     
  13. Sketcher

    Sketcher Commander Red Shirt

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    phase pistols are what i hate about Enterprise, those EM-33's woulda kicked ass
     
  14. John Sullivan

    John Sullivan Commodore Commodore

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    B-I-N-G-O - that says it all.

    The ratings support that concept.

    The sales numbers of associated book, model, and other "tie-in's" support that concept.

    The Activision Lawsuit supports that concept.

    There are indeed a very small minority of people who see this new show, apart from the Trek Franchise, as a good TV show that they love and support. The actual small number of these people pitched to the potential advertisers have falled far below promises or expectations. They are indeed a vocal minority - a very small minority.

    Without a show in production (unless you want to count "TAS") 30 years ago Trek was everything and everywhere. I truly believe that Star Trek would be far more popular today if "Enterprise" were not on the air.

    Yes, it's really as simple as that. What I wish would happen (and it probably will if UPN isn't renewed in the late winter/early spring) is Enterprise will go off the air and somehow crawl into a corner as some kind of embarrassment as many now see TAS. During that time, B&B can go off to do new and better things, while someone with half a clue can come in to run Star Trek, hopefully using the backdrop of James Dixson's notes and everyone else who has half a clue about what the pre-TOS Star Trek would look like - which is NOT this.
     
  15. ConnorLass

    ConnorLass Commander Red Shirt

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    Never mind that there are a thousand more channels and the ratings for every show are down.

    The books are rarer than hen's teeth. As for the 'toys', I for one am too old for baby games.

    The Activision Lawsuit is based on the idea that, after the failure of Nemesis, that there will be no more FILMS. Nothing to do with Enterprise as a TV series. What a specious argument :rolleyes:

    Yes, indeed, just a few million. So very sorry to be alive, still your argument proves I and all other Enterprise fans are negatable, huh?

    Your opinion. In mine Enterprise is a good series. Far from being an embarrassment it is a well made, well acted show. I hope the it continues for it's seven year run. :p
     
  16. John Sullivan

    John Sullivan Commodore Commodore

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    You really left me with very little substance of which to debate you. I acknowledge the existence of die-hard fans, and I appreciate what they're doing to keep the show as popular as it is. But, this show falls far below the peak of Star Trek at its greatest heights. Unfortuantely Berman is quite pleased with everything, and has no drive or ambition to return the Trek franchise to its former widespread popularity. And in all fairness, the franchise has been in steady decline for a long time - he should have quit while he was ahead. I think the next producer should have higher goals, and the willingness to aim high and go there. So long as Enterprise is produced under the umbrella of the TREK franchise, the comparisons - unfair though they might be - between Enterprise and other shows are inevitable. What Berman should do NEXT is come out with his OWN show - separate from the Trek Umbrella entirely using none of its toys or gadgets, and if he does this well in the ratings, he'll be seen as some kind of genius.
     
  17. Classic Fan

    Classic Fan Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    [​IMG]
    Thats all i have to say, so basically, i agree with everything.
     
  18. where'sSaavik?

    where'sSaavik? Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Wow, this thread is still going?

    :eek:

    Cute. I'd have thought my MISC thread entitled "SAAVIK IS A GUY" would have taken care of that.

    :p

    The general public thought it looked stupid. They trust their own opinions. I'm sure they could give a shit about what Trek nerds think about anything.

    I tried that with VOY. Didn't work out so well. ;)

    People dislike seasons 1 and 2 because they were not that well done from a writing and acting standpoint. Lots of it was just silly, with a few gems like "Measure of a Man" thrown in to keep us interested. It wasn't the production values that drive this opinion. The production values were better in seasons 6 and 7, but many TNG fans like me will argue that those two seasons were inferior to seasons 3-5.

    I would have to agree. Trek is too good to suffer this. At least it used to be.
     
  19. John Sullivan

    John Sullivan Commodore Commodore

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    Let's be honest here, though. No one with the keys to the Trek franchise really cares less about "Trek." If they did, they would have pulled the plug on its dubious life support a long time ago. What they (a business) care about is taking their ownership of a license, and bleeding every last dollar out of it until it is finally dead. I hate to say it that way, but it's true. The state of "Trek" is partially hangover inertia from the olden golden days of Trek, which generally rebel against this show with clear vision of what it really is, against the kids Linda Park's age, born in 1978 or later, who (God love 'em) are too young to know any better, and great market material for this blasphemous derivative that they are trying to pass off as "Trek."

    Is ENTERPRISE a great show? No. It is a GOOD show? Yes. Would it be even better if the TREK were taken out of it? In my opinion, yes. It would be much better.
     
  20. Lady Conqueror

    Lady Conqueror Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Well I guess that explains it then - I'm too young to know any better :rolleyes:

    You know i love ya John but in this day and age when we can pretty much see every trek series via repeats or video/DVD release then we can base our opinions on Trek on something valid.

    I've seen all the other Treks - I think ENT fits right in with them and is just as good.