TNG should have ended with 'All Good Things...' ?

[Jonesy]

Slate had an article awhile back about how ST is meant for TV, and one line in particular I thought was great (paraphrased): you can't make a lucrative summer blockbuster about people sitting in a conference room debating non-violent solutions to problems they could solve easily by force, if they wanted to. I thought they really hit the nail on the head with that: the imperatives of big franchise tentpole films works against Trek's natural strengths.

This is an astute observation of one of the core issues of bringing Star Trek to a feature film series. The newer films seem to have addressed this issue by largely doing away with the more intellectual musings that TNG and TOS wrapped themselves with often. I even recall Chris Pine saying "You can't make cerebral Star Trek in 2016". But if you strip away the cerebral, is it still really Trek?

 

[JesterFace]

But if you strip away the cerebral, is it still really Trek?

I think Trek is something that is supposed to make you think, instead of BOOOM CRASH EXPLOSION NUDE entertainment which can get boring really fast. Except the nude thing, if it's a lady, for me at least.

 

[JayTheTrekkie]

It was good to have the TNG movies. First Contact was the best so far.

 

[at Quark's]

If you ask me how TNG did end, I'd say, with AGT. It brought perfect closure to 7 years of the series. The movies have a somewhat disconnected feel to that, as separate adventures that required more brawl than brain, contrary to TNG style.

That's not to say I dislike or ignore the movies. To me, they are just later snapshots that happened in a different, later, phase of the life of our heroes. Just as a phase of life can end, but life itself goes on.

 

[Sebine_91]

I'd vote no. I have fond memories of the TNG movies, but given that the last one came out when I was 11 it's probably just that at the time I thought watching Insurrection and Nemesis was amazing just for the thrill of seeing Star Trek at the cinema.

Having said that, even away from childhood nostalgia, whilst not being as amazing as I remember, I still get some enjoyment out of them, with First Contact being the best Trek film alongside The Wrath of Khan in my opinion. My main gripe with Nemesis is the ending really, in spite of Data's death and Troi and Riker leaving it doesn't have the same 'end of an era' ending that All Good Things and Generations have. To me Generations feels much more like the end of an era - we see the classic TNG uniforms for the last time and of course the destruction of the Enterprise D. I love the ending with Riker and Picard on the destroyed bridge and I feel that would have been the perfect ending for Nemesis if they hadn't have done it earlier. It's one of all my time favourite scenes.

I agree though that generally the show has always been better on the small screen. Back when I was a kid the movies were a nice 'bonus' to have alongside Voyager and DS9 (and Enterprise for Nemesis) but for the last few years when all we've had are films I've failed to get overly excited about them (I did really enjoy the 2009 film though) and longed for a TV series. I know it's probably been said a thousand times but If there is a fourth film it would be great if they got Frakes to direct it, given that his movie is considered one of the best.

 

[Prax]

I'd have been fine with TNG not having movies. Even at their best, they never managed that spark that justified several of the TOS films. Plus, All Good Things is a high point. Nemesis is not. It's like if the TOS films ended with Final Frontier.

Something interesting is First Contact has the highest tomatometer score at RT of all the TOS & TNG films. It's even higher than Wrath of Khan and sits at 93%

 

[tharpdevenport]

Sometimes, not always, I'm baffled by the ratings people give at places like Rotten Tomatoes. For me, for example, FC is the second worst TNG (behind Nemesis) and it's certainly that simply transcend each person's opinion. Somebody can love Insurrection, but that doesn't make it better than The Wrath of Khan. Somebody can love "Jurassic Park III", but that doesn't make it better than the first film. And so forth and so on from other franchises. It's kind of like a truism in life.

 

[Prax]

Well, ultimately there is no "better" or "worse." And I'm not too fond of aggregate critic scores, but it is interesting. I've personally never been that blown away by any of the films save TMP, which i saw as a child, but I love all of the TV series.

 

[BlueshirtGuard]

Yeah should have ended there, it was a great end to a great series. I did kinda like Generations and First Contact but All Good Things was the best ending.

 

[Phoenix219]

I like "First Contact" a lot, but I'd gladly trade it if it meant no Borg Queen. I liked "Generations" but would have rather had a FULL crossover film with the whole crews of TOS and TNG involved. And I really pretty much despise "Insurrection" and "Nemesis". So given the choice, I'd have ended TNG with "All Good Things". But preferably not to have NO films, but maybe one or two that were really and truly excellent, in the fullness of time.

I'm still hoping for *one more* - a full crossover with the TNG cast and the Kelvinverse Enterprise crew - before the TNG cast gets too old (or passes ). But that's probably a pipedream.

At this point, I think I would rather see TNG crossover with the STC crew, to be honest. I want the TOS ship and sound effects and uniforms, and I want to see Patrick Stewart on screen talking about Old Scotty to Chris Doohan.

 

[Phoenix219]

The problem with "Generations" is that all that needed to be said with the TOS cast was perfectly said with ST 6. That was it, and bringing them back could not live up to that ending, and said more than was needed, and did not work. Honestly, if you're gonna do it, maybe have the old men versions of these characters come out of retirement in the 24th century for the very last adventure, "Robin and Marian" style. They are past their prime and things no longer work out how they did in their golden age, but they press on and it is an epilogue adventure that they do not really need to undertake but do for old time's sake.

Thats what I enjoy so much about the bookends to "Gods and Men" and what I had hoped for after seeing both Spock and Scotty at reasonable ages be adjusted to the 24th Century.

Of course, I am one of those guys that would have loved to see *Picard* die in Generations, and see how *Kirk* handles yet another rebirth after taking command of the newest Enterprise and tracking down Spock and Scotty.... an odd blended crew of TOS and 24th century characters (from all 3 shows) would have been a lot of fun IMO.

 

[2takesfrakes]

When TOS went the movie route, it was a brand new medium for STAR TREK and there was plenty of new ground to break there - which, of course, it did. In fact, the changes the TOS movies made to its traditional props, sets and characters continue to resonate on, many decades later.

But TNG entered the foray of motion pictures out of a sense of entitlement. This, more than anything hindered the TNG movie franchise from becoming a game changer, in its own right. This mistaken attitude was compounded by the fact that there was no story arc, like what the TOS movies had to connect them all. Episodic, unrelated sequels in a movie franchise like STAR TREK doesn't seem as valid, or worthwhile.

Despite these issues, Frakes' directing two of the movies did so much to bring out the best from the main cast and his style's all up in it. The quality of FC and INS is Top Shelf, but outside of the Borg Queen, there was nothing really ambitious about these projects. If you weren't a TREKKIE, per se, just a movie-goer ... all the movies seem pretty comfortable with whatever else was out at the time. So, I don't consider the movies a failure, at all. I don't feel that TNG had no future in movies. I just feel that the sense of entitlement about it tripped up the potential that was there ... they could've been so much more.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

I like the idea of TNG continuing with films, but the films we got were generally subpar and not as entertaining as the TOS movies.

First Contact was pretty decent. Nemesis was just poorly written like a B action movie with sixty year olds. Generations and Insurrection were more like mediocre two part episodes.

 

[USS Triumphant]

At this point, I think I would rather see TNG crossover with the STC crew, to be honest. I want the TOS ship and sound effects and uniforms, and I want to see Patrick Stewart on screen talking about Old Scotty to Chris Doohan.

That would be very cool, but I think my notion is more likely - and even more likely yet is that we'll either never see a crossover similar to this *at all*, or that it will happen with the Kelvinverse crew and a *rebooted* version of TNG, or, *just maybe* with the Kelvinverse crew and Discovery.

 

[Lance]

By all accounts All Good Things... was almost serendipitous in the way it managed to wrap things up so beautifully. Personally, I think one of the master strokes was that it is a time travel story with a difference, but in so doing it actually allows us (as the viewers at home) to contrast and compare how these characters have genuinely grown, changed and developed in seven years, as well as to ponder how another decade or two would change them further. One of the sequences that best illustrates this is how 'past' Data doesn't understand the notion of O'Brien using a slang phrase, but 'present' Data uses just such an analogy in the next scene, allowing us to make the comparison in the space of five short minutes just how far he's come. There's lot of similar little moments I keep noticing every time I rewatch. Hitting notes like that is what makes it such a perfect finale.

Nemesis had that in only a couple scenes -- Riker remembering back to his first meeting with Data is one, and maybe the "It was an honor to serve with you" scene in the ready room. The deleted scenes do include a lot more of that kind of continuity (eg. Spot choosing Worf as her new owner) that would have resonated with long-time fans, but unfortunately stuff on the cutting room floor doesn't count. The final movie isn't the great finale it could've been. It needed more of that kind of deleted character stuff to really help make it feel like it was harkening back to the history of the TV show, while also being a parting of the ways. All Good Things... makes scripting that look easy.

 

[marlboro]

I think it should have definitely ended with All Good Things. The perfect ending to an amazing show.

I really hated all of the silly humor and pointless action they added to the TNG movies. Getting rid of Geordi's visor, slapping the emotion chip into Data for cheap laughs, Picard singing, Picard's clone, the Borg Queen, and on and on and on. I can't really think of any things positive things that the TNG movies added to Trek lore.

 

[WarpFactorZ]

The problem with "Generations" is that all that needed to be said with the TOS cast was perfectly said with ST 6.

This!! Generations had the distinction of ruining not one, but two great finales by trying to keep the party going. The subsequent films then went on to change the fundamental character of Picard to a John McLean action hero, and Data into ... whatever he became. The rest of the crew were relegate to the background and B-plots.

In my head canon, STVI and All Good Things are the ends of TOS and TNG.

 

[Voth commando1]

I still love FC-even if some people didn't like the Borg Queen, emotion chip, or action picard(which was something Patrick Stewart wanted anyway)

 

[F. King Daniel]

If there is a fourth film it would be great if they got Frakes to direct it, given that his movie is considered one of the best.

Yes but then he did Insurrection which was rubbish.

 

[Herbert]

If they hadn't done any Next Gen movies, we'd all be sitting here saying, "why didn't they do any Next Gen movies?"

That said, none of the NG hold any special place for me, unlike some of the TOS movies. So for me, maybe they shouldn't have made any of them. I did enjoy them but don't really have much desire to re-watch any of them. However, maybe I should. I'm not watching Generations again though.

 

[Emperor Norton]

Yes but then he did Insurrection which was rubbish.

Insurrection was what would have been an ok episode in between great episodes, except it was bloated into a movie.

If they hadn't done any Next Gen movies, we'd all be sitting here saying, "why didn't they do any Next Gen movies?"

That said, none of the NG hold any special place for me, unlike some of the TOS movies. So for me, maybe they shouldn't have made any of them. I did enjoy them but don't really have much desire to re-watch any of them. However, maybe I should. I'm not watching Generations again though.

I'd recommend Generations as the more worthy one after First Contact. Insurrection is dull. Nemesis is not that great.