TNG should have ended with 'All Good Things...' ?

Discussion in 'Star Trek: The Next Generation' started by JesterFace, Jan 1, 2017.

  1. JesterFace

    JesterFace Captain Captain

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    There's the question, would it have been better if TNG had ended with 'All Good Things' and there would be no movies after the final episode?

    I think AGT wraps up the series perfectly and the movies... don't. These days I don't pay any attention to the TNG movies. (because they are weak IMO)

    On the other hand, if there were no TNG movies, we'd be all wondering ”why didn't they do TNG films!?!? TOS had 6...”
     
  2. gamer1

    gamer1 Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

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    I like Generations, FC and Nemesis, they all have some emotional deep stories or good action (Yes I am fully aware of all the weird plot holes but I choose to see the good in the movies)

    You're right though, that the movies don't wrap it up so I'm more sad we didn't get more movies.
     
  3. Vger23

    Vger23 Captain Captain

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    No. I'm fine with TNG continuing as films. They are weaker in the grand scheme of the franchise, but still highly enjoyable in their own right.

    They would have had to been horrific, offensive, llama shite for me to say the world Would be better off without them. And, nothing could be further from the truth.
     
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  4. Lynx

    Lynx Vice Admiral Admiral

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    The movies were OK, except for "Nemesis" which was bad but most episodes in the series were much better.

    The same with TOS actually.

    I think that Star Trek is better as a series with a certain continuity than as a movie concept.
     
  5. JesterFace

    JesterFace Captain Captain

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    This.

    Movies work with one-off stories, but something as big and complex as Trek can be, it doesn't fit the movie format.
     
  6. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk Neil The Hippy Premium Member

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    TNG did end with "All Good Things".
     
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  7. Paradise City

    Paradise City Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I've no fundamental problem with the movies following TNG. They were all good little jaunts. I would've liked to see the future materialise more like the future depicted in AGT. i.e Data living out his life. But that's just a personal preference rather than a fundamental problem.
     
  8. Sakonna

    Sakonna Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    Slate had an article awhile back about how ST is meant for TV, and one line in particular I thought was great (paraphrased): you can't make a lucrative summer blockbuster about people sitting in a conference room debating non-violent solutions to problems they could solve easily by force, if they wanted to. I thought they really hit the nail on the head with that: the imperatives of big franchise tentpole films works against Trek's natural strengths.

    You can obviously still make great movies within that framework, it's just a heavy lift. Of the 4 TNG films, only FC is truly great. But ultimately, I would still rather have them all than not have them.

    I think. Maybe I need to rewatch Nemesis and Insurrection and see if I still stand by that...
     
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  9. Emperor Norton

    Emperor Norton Captain Captain

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    In retrospect, I would say yes. The films never managed to capture the magic of the finale. Had they been different, had they taken bolder steps in making the characters change in life and felt more interconnected to events in the grand tapestry of the Enterprise, then it may have been different. Nemesis was an attempt at a good final note, but it rang hollow, and in retrospect, the films feel like a meandering narrative. There was no lasting arc, whether among themselves or related to the show. It was just "another one" instead of the further development of these characters and everything around them. Everything from one film would be forgotten in the next. As a narrative arc goes, "All Good Things" is really a perfect final note.

    That said, I like First Contact. I have nostalgic enjoyment for Generations. I don't particularly disregard Insurrection. The less said about Nemesis, the better. However, from a story standpoint of knowing when enough has been said, it may have been better to leave it where it was.
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2017
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  10. Tosk

    Tosk Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I'd have been fine with TNG not having movies. Even at their best, they never managed that spark that justified several of the TOS films. Plus, All Good Things is a high point. Nemesis is not. It's like if the TOS films ended with Final Frontier.
     
  11. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    I like 3 out of the 4 TNG movies, and I like them more than most TNG episodes, so no. I'm glad we got the TNG movies.
     
  12. tharpdevenport

    tharpdevenport Admiral Admiral

    While I think Generations is far and away the best TNG film (in fact, I'd say it is the ONLY good TNG film...), if I had to chose between that (and the following films) versus "All Good Things...", I'd have prefered "All Good Things..." ended the TNG series and thus no further films.

    Now, had Generations been written a little differently (Kirk didn't die that way or Kirk wasn't in it at all, the Enterprise D wasnt' destroyed [or at least not replaced by the Enterprise E design], characters got better character developement, etc.), I'd have been fine with that being the end of TNG.
     
  13. Voth commando1

    Voth commando1 Captain Captain

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    First Contact will always be the best Trek movie. Other than that it should have ended with Picard playing cards with his friends.
     
  14. USS Triumphant

    USS Triumphant Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I like "First Contact" a lot, but I'd gladly trade it if it meant no Borg Queen. I liked "Generations" but would have rather had a FULL crossover film with the whole crews of TOS and TNG involved. And I really pretty much despise "Insurrection" and "Nemesis". So given the choice, I'd have ended TNG with "All Good Things". But preferably not to have NO films, but maybe one or two that were really and truly excellent, in the fullness of time.

    I'm still hoping for *one more* - a full crossover with the TNG cast and the Kelvinverse Enterprise crew - before the TNG cast gets too old (or passes :( ). But that's probably a pipedream.
     
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  15. Emperor Norton

    Emperor Norton Captain Captain

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    The problem with "Generations" is that all that needed to be said with the TOS cast was perfectly said with ST 6. That was it, and bringing them back could not live up to that ending, and said more than was needed, and did not work. Honestly, if you're gonna do it, maybe have the old men versions of these characters come out of retirement in the 24th century for the very last adventure, "Robin and Marian" style. They are past their prime and things no longer work out how they did in their golden age, but they press on and it is an epilogue adventure that they do not really need to undertake but do for old time's sake.
     
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  16. Lynx

    Lynx Vice Admiral Admiral

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    The best thing would have been if the series had continued for a couple of more seasons.

    It was a winner, there were no reasons at all to drop it after only seven seasons.
     
  17. Sybok Was Wrong

    Sybok Was Wrong Commander Red Shirt

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    If Season 7 was stronger, it would have been a crime to cancel.

    "All Good Things" is the perfect bookend.

    There was never any doubt there would be TNG Movies. Theoretically, they should have been much better than the TOS films, considering all the excellent 2-parters, and whole TNG Universe created.

    Unfortunately The TNG Movies were made by TV people a ltitle burnt out. They lacked distance and perspective to tackle Feature level work.
     
  18. Anwar

    Anwar Vice Admiral Admiral

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    The TOS movies were made to reignite a series that had been canceled after 3 seasons, expanded on worldbuilding and characterization. They made sense.

    The TNG movies were really just quick cash-ins on popularity...and frankly, none of them matched up to All Good Things.
     
  19. Sakonna

    Sakonna Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    I posted earlier in this thread that I would rather have all the movies than not have them, and ended with: "Maybe I need to rewatch Nemesis and Insurrection and see if I still stand by that..."

    Well, I rewatched Nemesis the other day. YIKES! All these years I've thought to myself "it was pretty bad, but not as bad as people say." Was I ever wrong on that count! What a disaster! Every line and story beat was wrong! What a lousy, emotionally empty mess of a film.

    I think I must have been stoned when I went to see it the first time. Protected me from the full extent of it's awfulness until now.
     
  20. Four Lights

    Four Lights Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

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    None of the movies other than Generations really felt the same as the TV show. I guess that was understandable as it went into production right after the series wrapped and all the same creative people were still on board.
    To me that was important though.

    The other three movies after it were entertaining enough (First Contact very much so) but the sense of integrity, the depth....the emotional "poise" almost you could call it. That was what was lost.