Time Crack is stupid

[The Wormhole]

Really my only problem with the Cracks is that in The Eleventh Hour they seem to be some sort of portal or gateway, whereas then for the rest of the series they swallow things up and erase them. Not much consistency there.

It was established in Vampires of Venice that there are two different kinds of cracks, those which erase things, and those which act as portals. The vampire/fish arrived to Earth through a portal crack, though they were aware of the eraser cracks as well.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

Well, this time crack stuff isn't exactly the most logical, sensible, airtight thing. I can't bring myself to say the phrase but I'd say Moffat is more concerned with telling a certain kind of story than making sure it all makes complete sense.

 

[The Wormhole]

If we were to restrict science fiction to only that which make sense and is logical and plausible, there'd be non of the popular science fiction shows/movies/franchises we enjoy today. No Doctor Who, no Star Trek, no Star Wars, and so on.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

^^ I don't think I ever said such a thing.

 

[The Wormhole]

Upon reflection, no you didn't. I just took a look at your opening senctence:

Well, this time crack stuff isn't exactly the most logical, sensible, airtight thing.

and had a knee-jerk reaction to it. My apoligies for any misunderstanding and or offense.

 

[The]

I am starting to feel like Nero from Star Trek debating these things with you. "It did happen, I saw it happen!! Don't tell me it didn't happen!"

Yeah, I'd just give up on EJA. He lives in his own world. Let him.

 

[RoJoHen]

The time cracks were poorly conceived. I don't mind the concept, but I thought the execution was terrible. It was very unclear exactly what was wrong with the universe and what had been fixed at the end. We only really know what was wrong with Amy's memory, but we don't know how wided-spread the effects were. Now that the universe has been repaired, does Amy remember the Daleks again? Or the Cybermen? If not, does that mean they never invaded, or does it just mean that Amy doesn't remember it happening?

We only really got Amy's time-cracky perspective on these things, so the story feels very incomplete to me.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

I think the status of the public awareness of aliens is a bit odd. I get the sense that they always want the public to be in the dark regardless of what happened in other episodes.

 

[RoJoHen]

I don't think they left people in the dark, but they do like the people to be shocked. One of the things I loved about Donna in the beginning was that she was oblivious to all the crazy alien stuff going on, when it was obvious that the rest of the world knew about it.

Donna: "I was in Spain."
Doctor: "There were Daleks in Spain."

And there was that episode where the UK was all but abandoned on Christmas Day because aliens always tend to invade on Christmas.

However, just because the world is aware of aliens doesn't mean that each new alien experience can't be shocking and terrifying. I certainly doubt that the world's population is going to be like, "Ho-hum, another alien invasion."

 

[Skellington]

As I understand it, the universe's timeline was restored to a form that includes more or less every event deleted by the cracks, as the cracks themselves now kind of never happened. The time travellers remember them in some way because of some wibbly-wobbly timey-wimey perspective.

As regards deleting a person but not the effects of their actions, this could be construed as the universe finding some kind of equilibrium and limiting the changes; eg if the Docttor has been deleted and not yet restored then someone else now started the Great Fire Of London.

The Marvel Universe gets along pretty well with public knowledge of superheroes and aliens. Maybe the show should play with the idea of "outing" the Doctor in some way, something that it has kind of edged towards in NuWho (, eg the PM making a televised appeal to him in The Christmas Invasion).

 

[EJA]

I am starting to feel like Nero from Star Trek debating these things with you. "It did happen, I saw it happen!! Don't tell me it didn't happen!"

Yeah, I'd just give up on EJA. He lives in his own world. Let him.

Kindly do not insult me for having an opinion different to that of the rest of the group, The.

 

[The]

I am starting to feel like Nero from Star Trek debating these things with you. "It did happen, I saw it happen!! Don't tell me it didn't happen!"

Yeah, I'd just give up on EJA. He lives in his own world. Let him.

Kindly do not insult me for having an opinion different to that of the rest of the group, The.

No insult. As has been mentioned previously in this thread, you willfully ignore the facts that have been presented to you. You choose to live in your own little world. Thus, I say we let you.

 

[Butters]

I dislike certain aspects of it because it doesn't make sense, and I personally feel it cheapens and distorts things too much. Remember Donna Noble, how the Doctor dropped her off with her family, with those inaccessible memories of being the DoctorDonna and fighting Davros and the Daleks lurking somewhere deep inside her mind? And Wilf, Donna's grandfather and the Doctor's friend who was constantly on the lookout for alien invaders? And Harriet Jones, who so heroically redeemed herself by sacrificing her own life? And Jackson Lake and Miss Hartigan, who encountered Cybermen in Victorian London? Their lives won't be the same now, and I just think it's sad. Hate me for saying these things, if you like, but it's simply how I feel.

I'm pretty much of the opposite view. While the cracks don't make a great deal of logical sense, it did please me to find the new series stomping over past continuity to some extent. Dr Who has to remain relevant to its audience, and drawing a line under the RTD era in such a way was a rather a bold statement to that effect.

Consider Dr Who's audience and imagine a 10 year old thrilled by Ecclestone's adventures; they will be 15/16 now and enjoying pastures new. A mediocre Christmas special that added nothing of value to the mythology has no relevance to the current audience, but ridiculing the very notion of a giant cyberman stomping across London gives the series a credible fresh start without any baggage for the continuous viewer.

Imagine my horror at the end when they did fix all the cracks, and all those invasions did happen after all.

 

[Phily B]

Recent episodes of The Sarah Jane Adventures indicate that the majority of people on Earth don't believe in aliens, which wouldn't be possible if the Dalek attack had still occured.

RTD used to use the Buffy way of wiping out. People sort of know it happens, but don't want to believe it or that it was a government experiment gone wrong. Silly yes, but I never cared in Buffy or DW. E.g - Doomsday ghosts were due to something in the water, The Master being everyone and everyone being him due to Wi-Fi signal. It seems Mr Smith can put out stories about it, and I'm sure UNIT would like to cover stuff up.

 

[Admiral_Young]

No one is insulting you EJA, The was stating a fact. Not only do you make grandiose proclamations about continuity you do not like, you ignore people who argue the other side of the equation and continue to adhere to your own opinion which is fine, you're entitled to your opinion but trying to ignore things because you don't like them is kind of ignorant in my opinion. I think I'm done in this thread now.

 

[Stevil2001]

Moffat said somewhere recently (DWM?) that the reset in "The Big Bang" did remove a lot of alien invasions from history so that the Whoniverse would be more like our universe. But he also said no one will ever directly say this on screen, so you can take it how you like.

 

[Skellington]

^ Zackly.

 

[EJA]

Moffat said somewhere recently (DWM?) that the reset in "The Big Bang" did remove a lot of alien invasions from history so that the Whoniverse would be more like our universe. But he also said no one will ever directly say this on screen, so you can take it how you like.

I still reckon it sounds too convoluted and contrived. And no one has really addressed the status of characters like Wilf and Harriet Jones and Jackson Lake yet. Have they been affected by the reset? The Doctor might remember all those adventures, but what about all his other friends? Hell, Amy forgot all about Rory, and she was a time traveller. You can't just take big events that effected lots of characters in deep and major ways, and then turn round and say "That big event never happened at all now." That's just very bad storytelling. And if Davros and his Dalek army were absorbed by the Crack, does that mean that Davros now never existed at all as far as the rest of the universe is concerned? Bugger.

You know, I actually have a theory that the entirety of NuWho takes place inside an artificial bottle universe that can get away with these kinds of crazy, stupid things. The bottle exists somewhere in the Classic Whoniverse, which is that much more sensible and less insane.

 

[Phily B]

He won't bring it up on screen because the mainstream audience will get confused by it, and probably be a bit pissed. SJA and Torchwood still going on seems to indicate its all good.

Why the time cracks need to wipe anything out, I don't know. Like I said, RTD used to just make some silly excuse up for it.

 

[EJA]

Why the time cracks need to wipe anything out, I don't know.

Exactly. There's always going to be something happening in DW that will mean it cannot, and never was, our reality. I always liked it in Remembrance of the Daleks when the Seventh Doctor asked Ace if she knew anything about the Yetis in the London Underground, and the Loch Ness Monster swimming up the Thames and attacking Parliament; she says no, and the Doctor explains that it's due to humanity's amazing capacity for self-deception. Of course, the mass Dalek invasion would be a lot harder to ignore, but then again, the Whoniverse isn't our own, so it's history doesn't have to follow ours 100%. Sadly, it appears Moffat doesn't feel that way. I have an idea what Moffat would really have liked to do was erase all of DW prior to his series, but RTD is still doing SJA and Torchwood, so he couldn't quite do that.