Time Crack is stupid

[EJA]

I'm sorry, but I can't keep silent about this. I still reckon that the whole concept of the Time Crack in Series 5 is totally ridiculous. Nothing about it makes the least bit of sense. We're told that things that get absorbed by it are written out of time and thus never existed.....but everything that said things did and caused still happens, when there's no way it could have if they never existed in the first place.

Then there's the horribly contrived way it's used to retcon events from past shows out of continuity. The Dalek invasion now never happened, because the Daleks fell into a Time Crack. The Cybermen in Victorian London now never happened, because they fell into a Time Crack. Why don't the writers just say that all of the Classic series and Series 1 to 4 of NuWho fell into the Crack, as they obviously don't have much regard for what's gone before!

 

[Admiral_Young]

^ Because they didn't. That's simply how you're viewing it because you don't like it and see it as some attempt by Moffat to reboot things, which it clearly isn't. You've stated your problems with the crack many times during the series. Everything happened as it happened. The universe was simply repaired by the reboot. Nothing was erased. For some reason you seem to think so though.

 

[VDCNI]

Moffat just wants a world where meeting aliens isn't commonplace which is understandable.

Sorry I really don't understand why it matters - the vast majority of Who stories never get referenced again in the series anyway so what does it matter if these ones technically never happened. They are still there to be watched and enjoyed.

 

[Admiral_Young]

^ Agreed. It seems like it matters to EJA because he likes to come up with his own continuities and dismisses anything that might contradict that just because he doesn't like it. I seriously do not understand how a person can sit through a show and enjoy it that way.

 

[EJA]

I dislike certain aspects of it because it doesn't make sense, and I personally feel it cheapens and distorts things too much. Remember Donna Noble, how the Doctor dropped her off with her family, with those inaccessible memories of being the DoctorDonna and fighting Davros and the Daleks lurking somewhere deep inside her mind? And Wilf, Donna's grandfather and the Doctor's friend who was constantly on the lookout for alien invaders? And Harriet Jones, who so heroically redeemed herself by sacrificing her own life? And Jackson Lake and Miss Hartigan, who encountered Cybermen in Victorian London? Their lives won't be the same now, and I just think it's sad. Hate me for saying these things, if you like, but it's simply how I feel.

 

[FalTorPan]

I never got the impression that the time crack was intended to erase previous show events from continuity. As scientific concepts go, the time crack was absurd, but no more so than most other ideas in sci-fi television and features.

 

[Admiral_Young]

Again...I don't get how one thinks that the cracks completely erase all of those things that you mention in your post EJA. They still happened. Wilf is around still. Donna is still married to Sean Temple and probably living a happy life with the lottery money the Doctor gave her. All of these things happened. They were not erased, just because we do not see them or have them directly referenced doesn't mean they didn't happen. Hell...if you watched "Meanwhile in the Tardis" all of the Doctor's female companions were displayed. All ten doctor's have been shown. River has been in the show and is a critical element in Moffat's plans.

 

[Phily B]

The time cracks didn't erase everything, and most of it was restored anyway.

 

[EJA]

The time cracks didn't erase everything, and most of it was restored anyway.

Except the Dalek invasion (heavily implied) and the Cybermen in 1850s London. Which leads me to wonder what became of Jackson Lake and Miss Hartigan.

 

[Phily B]

That was just Amy as far as I know, and she couldn't remember her own parents could she? But they were restored.

 

[Admiral_Young]

^ Yep I took that to mean that Amy and Leadsworth it's self were somehow blocked from remembering the Dalek invasion, most likely because the crack was in Amy's room.

 

[EJA]

Recent episodes of The Sarah Jane Adventures indicate that the majority of people on Earth don't believe in aliens, which wouldn't be possible if the Dalek attack had still occured.

 

[Admiral_Young]

No there would probably still be a segment of the world who simply refused to believe in aliens despite seeing them. That doesn't mean it didn't happen. You seem hellbent in believing the cracks erased stuff.

 

[FallOfFingolfin]

Really my only problem with the Cracks is that in The Eleventh Hour they seem to be some sort of portal or gateway, whereas then for the rest of the series they swallow things up and erase them. Not much consistency there.

 

[Admiral_Young]

^ Well one could argue that is because the crack was slowly expanding and growing.

 

[EJA]

In a recent SJA episode, Sarah Jane uses Mr Smith to prevent a probe sent to Mars from sending photos revealing alien civilization on the planet back to Earth, so the public don't become aware of aliens. Why bother doing this after the Dalek invasion, and all the other instances on NuWho when aliens have wreaked havoc on Earth?

 

[Admiral_Young]

I guess I'm not gonna convince you that the cracks haven't erased anything. You are obviously intent on believing that they did and keep citing things that support your argument even though people have already told you the cracks did not alter or erase previous continuity. Is is so hard to simply enjoy everything and not try to create your own continuity? I am starting to feel like Nero from Star Trek debating these things with you. "It did happen, I saw it happen!! Don't tell me it didn't happen!"

 

[Pseudo]

The thing is, it's entirely irrelevant whether or not the time cracks erased anything. All the events that have appeared in Doctor Who did happen to The Doctor. They are part of his personal history and since Doctor Who as a show is telling us the personal history of The Doctor all those events occurred in The Doctor's personal time-line.

And I've got the DVD's to prove it.

 

[Cyke101]

In a recent SJA episode, Sarah Jane uses Mr Smith to prevent a probe sent to Mars from sending photos revealing alien civilization on the planet back to Earth, so the public don't become aware of aliens. Why bother doing this after the Dalek invasion, and all the other instances on NuWho when aliens have wreaked havoc on Earth?

You realize that was also after the Atraxi invaded the Earth in search of Prisoner Zero, right? Broadcasting on every signal, shouting at humanity, they weren't exactly hiding from Earth's citizens. That doesn't mean they were wiped out from history; otherwise, Amy and the Doctor never would have met, and Amy wouldn't be able to save him in the S5 finale.

You also realize that your point is rendered moot because Victory of the Daleks specifically happened because of the failed S4 invasion.

I guess I'm not gonna convince you that the cracks haven't erased anything. You are obviously intent on believing that they did and keep citing things that support your argument even though people have already told you the cracks did not alter or erase previous continuity. Is is so hard to simply enjoy everything and not try to create your own continuity? I am starting to feel like Nero from Star Trek debating these things with you. "It did happen, I saw it happen!! Don't tell me it didn't happen!"

The whole narrative point of the cracks was that something was wrong with history, and that it was up to the Doctor to put everything back the way it used to be, ie the Doctor Who universe we all know and love (otherwise, why try to seal them? Why try to solve them?). Which is something everyone's been trying to tell EJA since the first appearance of the crack in Series 5. But if convincing him of that didn't happen then, it ain't happening now, unfortunately.

The time crack arc is essentially a longer version of Turn Left, with Donna trying to restore time/the Doctor but ends up solving the problem her own way. But complaining about continuity and the crack is like complaining that Torchwood and the cast of SJA all died in that very specific, alt-universe episode, even though they turned up fine and well enough to help in the S4 finale. If the Dalek invasion didn't happen when the time crack was around (which it did, as previously mentioned), it certainly happened after the crack was sealed and the universe restarted.

 

[Admiral_Young]

^ Well said.