Time Crack is stupid

[Admiral_Young]

I believe I did point out that Wilf, Jackson, and all the characters from series 1-4 still exist. Just because they haven't been directly referenced in a episode does not mean they don't. Donna was shown in "Meanwhile in the Tardis" and not to be glib but as others have stated in the past we still have the DVD's to enjoy. Suggesting that the time cracks rebooted the universe in a literal sense in an attempt to erase previous history is not what the concept of it was for...at least my opinion. Again not to keep attacking your view point but it seems like you don't like it because it conflicts with your personal continuity of the series. I like to think that everything that has happened in "Doctor Who" and "Torchwood" happened.

 

[EJA]

trying to ignore things because you don't like them is kind of ignorant in my opinion.

Other people don't seem to have problems ignoring my opinions because they don't like them.

 

[EJA]

I believe I did point out that Wilf, Jackson, and all the characters from series 1-4 still exist. Just because they haven't been directly referenced in a episode does not mean they don't.

They definitely still exist. But are their lives the same as when we last saw them, or have they been fundamentally altered by the universal reset?

 

[Admiral_Young]

I'm not ignoring your opinion I'm disagreeing with it lol. ^ That is a good question. If you're asking if they've been fundamentally altered from knowing the Doctor and their experiences I'm inclined to say no but really we don't know. There is no way to know and I guess up to interpretation. I choose to believe they're adventures and memories are still intact, to me there's no real reason to say they don't.

 

[EJA]

In hindsight, I don't think Donna is really much of a cause for concern in this regard, as last time she was seen, she didn't remember any of her adventures with the Doctor anyway.

The thing is though, if the Cybermen in Victorian London were erased from history, does that mean that Jackson Lake's life went a different way than we saw in The Next Doctor? With no Cybermen, his wife wouldn't have died, he wouldn't have started thinking he was the Doctor, and he wouldn't have ever met the real Doctor. It's the same with Harriet Jones: If the Dalek invasion never happened, how could she still have died, along with all the other people across the world who were casualties of the attack? Do they all return to life now?

And I'm sorry to have to say this, but if recent stories do indeed strongly imply that earlier ones now never happened, then I personally find it a bit hard to watch those earlier stories. Why bother, if they don't really amount to anything anymore? They become like Scream of the Shalka and Death Comes to Time - shadows with no substance. But that's just my opinion, one I'm sure a lot of people will disagree with.

 

[RoJoHen]

But that's just my opinion, one I'm sure a lot of people will disagree with.

I agree with you here, especially since I so far like Matt Smith's adventures a lot less than I did Tennant's.

The ambiguity is really what's annoying about "The Big Bang" and the Cracks. Okay, he rebooted the universe, but what does that mean? What is the status of Earth and the people that were dramatically affected by previous events? Some people are able to look away and go, "It doesn't matter," but for me, not knowing the state of things really makes it hard to watch the show now because I don't have a context for it.

The only context we have for the universe is Amy, and considering how her life makes no sense, that isn't really a big help.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

And I'm sorry to have to say this, but if recent stories do indeed strongly imply that earlier ones now never happened, then I personally find it a bit hard to watch those earlier stories. Why bother, if they don't really amount to anything anymore? They become like Scream of the Shalka and Death Comes to Time - shadows with no substance. But that's just my opinion, one I'm sure a lot of people will disagree with.

I can understand where you're coming from because I got very upset at Donna's ultimate fate. In one sense, I know damn well it's just words on a page and isn't real but in another I allowed myself to become invested in those stories and those characters. Because I actually cared about the character, it was painful to watch all those experiences and growth stripped away.

 

[RoJoHen]

And I'm sorry to have to say this, but if recent stories do indeed strongly imply that earlier ones now never happened, then I personally find it a bit hard to watch those earlier stories. Why bother, if they don't really amount to anything anymore? They become like Scream of the Shalka and Death Comes to Time - shadows with no substance. But that's just my opinion, one I'm sure a lot of people will disagree with.

I can understand where you're coming from because I got very upset at Donna's ultimate fate. In one sense, I know damn well it's just words on a page and isn't real but in another I allowed myself to become invested in those stories and those characters. Because I actually cared about the character, it was painful to watch all those experiences and growth stripped away.

With Donna, it was tragic. She saved the entire universe, and she paid for it dearly. However, everything she did still happened, and her family still remembers. The thing that makes it so painful is that they (we) can't just tell her and help her remember.

The Cracks, however, may have completely erased everything that happened entirely. We really don't know. Obviously the Doctor still remembers, but does the rest of the world? A little clarification on the effects of the Big Bang would have been nice.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

^^ Sadly, I would've been happier if none of it had happened yet Donna was the one who could remember it (re:her situation).

 

[RoJoHen]

We all just want Donna to get better!

Honestly, I keep hoping something happens that causes her to remember, but instead of dying like she's supposed to, she regenerates!

 

[TyberiusDeAngelo]

We all just want Donna to get better!

Honestly, I keep hoping something happens that causes her to remember, but instead of dying like she's supposed to, she regenerates!

I have read each post in this tread and I am alittle confused. Some of you have mentioned Harriet Jones and Donna. Wouldn't Rose be in a similar situation. Without The Doctor and the Dalek Invasion in Series 2 she would never have gone to the parallel universe and ultimately liver happily ever after with the Human Doctor. With the supposed reboot is this the same?

 

[RoJoHen]

Indeed. Just because we haven't mentioned her doesn't mean she isn't in the same boat.

 

[EJA]

I think these issues are definitely worth exploring. I can't believe none of these characters haven't been affected in some way by the reset. Moffat has said that things are no longer as they were in the Whoniverse following Series 5 (Bloody Amy Pond, conveniently forgetting certain details ).

 

[EJA]

Wait, Amy didn't remember her parents, but they were brought back in the reset. How come the Daleks and Cybermen weren't?

 

[RoJoHen]

Wait, Amy didn't remember her parents, but they were brought back in the reset. How come the Daleks and Cybermen weren't?

Technically, we don't know if they were or not. It hasn't been addressed.

 

[EJA]

Wait, Amy didn't remember her parents, but they were brought back in the reset. How come the Daleks and Cybermen weren't?

Technically, we don't know if they were or not. It hasn't been addressed.

That is Moffat's intention though, and I do strongly feel it's borne out in recent episodes of SJA.

 

[RoJoHen]

Possibly. I haven't watched SJA.

 

[EJA]

Does anyone have a link to that interview with Moffat mentioned earlier?

 

[Pseudo]

In hindsight, I don't think Donna is really much of a cause for concern in this regard, as last time she was seen, she didn't remember any of her adventures with the Doctor anyway.

The thing is though, if the Cybermen in Victorian London were erased from history, does that mean that Jackson Lake's life went a different way than we saw in The Next Doctor? With no Cybermen, his wife wouldn't have died, he wouldn't have started thinking he was the Doctor, and he wouldn't have ever met the real Doctor. It's the same with Harriet Jones: If the Dalek invasion never happened, how could she still have died, along with all the other people across the world who were casualties of the attack? Do they all return to life now?

And I'm sorry to have to say this, but if recent stories do indeed strongly imply that earlier ones now never happened, then I personally find it a bit hard to watch those earlier stories. Why bother, if they don't really amount to anything anymore? They become like Scream of the Shalka and Death Comes to Time - shadows with no substance. But that's just my opinion, one I'm sure a lot of people will disagree with.

I hate to break this to you but none of the events depicted in Doctor Who ever really happened. It's a fictional TV show, none of the episodes really amount to anything other than being an entertaining television show.

 

[DWF]

Does anyone have a link to that interview with Moffat mentioned earlier?

There isn't a link since it came from DWM but here's what he said.

THE BIG BANG
theres also an interesting interview with Moff, about 'The Big Bang'. Where he discusses how NOW, the Doctor Who universe is once again a place where aliens showing up on earth is extremely surprising and new. He basically says how now, post 'Big Bang', the Earth in the Whoiverse is now closer to the real world.

so, what exactly has or hasn't happened in the doctor who universe, now that the series is over? Are all bets off, as far as doctor who 'history' as we know it?
"more like all bets that we feel like ignoring are off. The increasing problem in doctor who is that the people in the show live on a completely different planet from us. They're like 'look, more aliens, planets in the sky, ho hum!'
but history has wibbled. Without being too explicit about it, we can have characters suprised at the existence of aliens again. If we feel like it. But let's be honest - it's only us fans who give a toss about all this. So don't expect any 'history has wibbled' scenes. This is just a way for us all to justify continuity errors to ourselves, so we can sleep at night. Don't all thank me at once. N'night."