Things that don't add up:

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Discovery' started by Brain Melter, Jun 12, 2019.

  1. Novak Senkovic

    Novak Senkovic Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    mistakes in stardates were made by all of the treks, in the kelvin timeline the first movie ignored the decimal point when 6 digits were read out, such as 223304 instead of 2233.04. However, there are 30 discovery episodes and when you compare it's inconsistencies in stardates to the other shows, for the same amount of episodes the other shows had fewer inconsistencies. TNG DS9 and VOY had a stardate coordinator which kept track of stardates and tried to keep them consistent, but due to human error and probably typos in the scripts, stardate mistakes went to air.
     
  2. Brain Melter

    Brain Melter Admiral Rear Admiral

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    And that's the ones we know about.
     
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  3. Novak Senkovic

    Novak Senkovic Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    trust me i'm an expert on stardates and recorded every single stardate of every show and movie
     
  4. Brain Melter

    Brain Melter Admiral Rear Admiral

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    And to you they make sense? I thought it was impossible.
     
  5. Novak Senkovic

    Novak Senkovic Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    yes they do make sense to me and it's not impossible but it is difficult and was difficult. also where they are inconsistent I have come up with explanations for those inconsistencies but I don't like the explanation I cam up for Discovery's second season inconsistencies however it was the only way I could explain them. On the whole though stardates were surprisingly more consistent than what I thought they would be. for more information you will just have to read my book. But if you have any questions I would be happy to answer them as long as it's not information that exists in my book.
     
  6. thribs

    thribs Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    The entire show. :)
    The reasoning to go to the future when Control (or whatever that thing was) was defeated beforehand.
     
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  7. Yistaan

    Yistaan Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    While not a contradiction per se, it's bizarre that so many people willingly joined Burnham permanently in the future, without the possibility of seeing their home and family/friends again. Keep in mind that there was way more angsting in DS9's Children of Time about the Defiant crew never returning home, and Voyager's entire premise for 7 years was how to return home.

    It would be realistic if people had second thoughts come the third season. Strangely enough, it should be easy with slingshot method tech to time travel back? But the producers are saying they are stuck...
     
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  8. F. King Daniel

    F. King Daniel Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Do any of them really have lives outside of Discovery? The VOY/DS9 crews had stronger links. In DSC, Michael does and made the biggest sacrifice. Saru has a sister he's been estranged from, Tilly hates her mom, Owo is an outcast, Jett is a widow, Stamets lost his best friend in season 1 and Culber only exists when Stamets is in the room.
     
  9. Novak Senkovic

    Novak Senkovic Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Yes I know that but Discovery's inconsistencies lies in the stardates that the suit gave and the last stardate mentioned in season 2 goes back to before season one's very first episode the Vulcan Hello which has a Stardate of 1207.3. I still managed to make sense of it by placing Discovery's first season in an alternate timeline (i know kurtzman said it's the primary timeline but...) and season 2 discovery in yet another alternate timeline created when michael burhnam did those time jumps.

    Actually some of the stardates didn't make sense but I managed to make them make sense.
     
  10. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I guess it depends on how much of his crew Lorca was able to hand-pick. Obviously, he'd prefer spineless losers nobody misses, or ruthless cohorts who care about nobody but themselves (and, by extension, about the boss who pays).

    And there would be several stages during which to hand-pick. First, you get eccentric scientists working on esoteric fields, so you are already off to a great start. Then you choose those who will work on the spore drive experiment (the only one you really care about, despite appearances), assisting the scientists. And then you choose whom to keep and whom to banish when spore drive finally pans out and the other experiments become redundant. In the background, Starfleet's blackest ops will back you up, thinking you are winning a war for them; if there are compromising contacts to the outside, SF Intel will, well, cut them.

    Might well be Saru and then Pike ended up with a ship full of folks whose ties to the rest of the universe were the loosest in the entire Starfleet. And/or folks who would be extra interested in weird things like time travel, and utterly fearless to dive in.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  11. Yistaan

    Yistaan Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    For what it's worth, one of the minor flaws about First Contact (an otherwise excellent film) is that during Lily's and Worf's protestations to Picard to destroy the Enterprise in 21st century Earth, no one brings up the fact that Picard refusing to destroy the Enterprise also means he's refusing to destroy their only means of possibly returning home.

    Picard is immediately portrayed as the unstable one when actually the situation is far more complex than that, but the idea that he's fighting hard not to permanently strand his crew is never addressed.
     
  12. Brain Melter

    Brain Melter Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Well, his yelling at Worf for being a coward, a suicidal move if ever there was one, his yelling at Lily and breaking his model ships, helped a lot to portray him as unstable. Captains in their right minds don't do that sort of thing.
     
  13. Yistaan

    Yistaan Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    What I meant is that they purposely wrote Picard that way so they didn't have to address the fallacies of Worf and Lily suggesting stranding the crew instead of other options. Suddenly they are the good guys, when in fact the situation is more nuanced.
     
  14. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Naturally, we could assume that Worf would be the suicidal type by default: the man who has grown up thinking every day is a good day to die would not worry about getting back home. And Lily is home.

    So it essentially befalls Crusher to think selfishly of getting back to the late 24th century. Would she be up to it? Originally, she was the one suggesting that "fear of death" was a thing of the barbaric past, and that "letting go" was a good career move. I don't necessarily see the character evolving in a different direction; she might be fine with spending the rest of her life on barbaric Earth.

    Although of course a pickup would be a distinct possibility. The heroes are veterans of "Time's Arrow", where a temporal castaway was able to leave a message across centuries and secure his pickup, sort of... They are no strangers to time travel techniques in general for that matter. A pickup is more easily arranged than the calling in of reinforcements from across the centuries at the moment they are needed, and might well be what everybody is counting on, even if the 24th century doesn't crop up in their discussions otherwise.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
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  15. Yistaan

    Yistaan Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Crusher: Well, to be honest I wasn't that keen on seeing my son again. Let's blow up the ship!

    Maybe the crew thought once they were stranded on 21st century Earth, Picard could just shout in the sky for Q to take them home and he'll do it.

    You have a good point in that they could have had Cochrane make a "time capsule" only to be opened in 2373, at which point Starfleet opens it and it says "Department of Temporal Investigations, please time travel and pick up the crew of the Enterprise E on January 1, Earth year 2064, on Gravett Island."
     
  16. Brain Melter

    Brain Melter Admiral Rear Admiral

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    What I find surprising about this movie is that they have a computer capable of detecting and identifying any life sign on board. So why given that they were going into battle against the Borg, why wasn't the computer instructed to sound the alarm as soon as it detected a single Borg on board. That kind of detail makes the whole thing seem stupid.
     
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  17. Prax

    Prax Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Easy. The Borg disabled internal sensors
     
  18. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    ...It's a wonder a cyborg species isn't shown fighting a more cybernetic type of war, taking over a starship by infiltrating its computers rather than fighting over possession of its corridors hand-to-hand.

    Then again, the Borg did take over the ship, converting bits of it to their own purposes. Quite possibly, recognizing their rare vulnerability, they just did it stealthily this time around, extending their cyber-fingers around specific decks and areas (apace with the physical conquest) while lulling the rest of the ship into thinking that everything was fine and well.

    My objection is more as regards the other Borg boardings. Why go for stealth there? Why not spread poisonous programs all across the ship, making Wesley's bridge console sprout green-glowing cyberbits even when the boarders are still droning about down on Deck 78?

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  19. Brain Melter

    Brain Melter Admiral Rear Admiral

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    So they can do anything then... It's a wonder they keep losing with such superior technology... Besides, can't the computer notice that his sensors are disabled or have they also disabled the computer's ability to notice that things don't work? The problem when you make villains too powerful is that then you have to explain why it takes them so long to seemingly win and finally lose the fight. Note that the Borg only leave people alone when they have their names on the credits list otherwise they assimilate them right away no matter what they do. The Borg are very elitist in nature.
     
  20. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Actually, the Borg haven't gone for assimilating of Starfleet people in general: Janeway's boarding parties didn't lose yellowshirts that way. Rather, the main characters were the ones getting tubules in their necks. ST:FC is a rare exception actually showing assimilation of a starship crew, even if this is supposed to happen a lot offscreen in other adventures.

    Perhaps immediate assimilation is not viable in most boarding actions, and the Borg in ST:FC were extra desperate for additional Drones?

    Timo Saloniemi