Theory for TOS Enterprise and Disco Enterprise differences

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Discovery' started by TrickyDickie, Feb 9, 2019.

  1. TrickyDickie

    TrickyDickie Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    There are multiple shipyards. As I understand it (anyone feel free to jump in here and correct me if I'm wrong) the shipyards are not run by Starfleet.

    They are all independent businesses that contract with Starfleet. They all come up with design proposals, independent from each other, that they trot out in front of the bigwigs at Starfleet, in hope that their shipyard will win the contract to build multiple copies of their design to bring the number of ships in the fleet up to the level that Starfleet wants.

    Let's say that Starfleet tells two or more shipyards, "We want a full-scale, working prototype of your heavy cruiser design that we can test in field trials." Each shipyard builds up a prototype and puts it in the hands of Starfleet for testing. At some point, Starfleet makes a choice from among the prototypes. The non-winning shipyards set aside their prototypes. Starfleet does not require them to be destroyed, because they don't include sensitive, advanced tech that Starfleet would have added on later.

    Along comes something like the war with the Klingons. A large percentage of Starfleet's ships are destroyed. They can't be quickly replaced. What would be a quick go-to source for some ships to help fill in the gaps? The unused prototypes.

    It's not difficult to imagine a scenario in which the Disco Enterprise was the design that Starfleet chose initially for regular production. The TOS Enterprise design might have initially been a non-winning competitive design. If the Disco Enterprise for some reason turned out to be hopelessly defective, or chronically troublesome, or whatever, Starfleet could easily transfer the name and registry number to the TOS design and have more built based on it.

    There is a bit of precedent, in a way. After Challenger was destroyed, there was a proposal to refit the space shuttle Enterprise into being a fully-working orbiter, as a replacement. It was finally decided that the costs involved and the work it would have required made it more practical to simply build a new one from scratch. But, it was seriously considered. Granted, the design itself was the same as the other orbiters, but I think you see the parallel that I am making here.

    Design studios have been known to cabbage details from competing studios, to varying levels, when opportunities present themselves. That would account for similarities in some design elements. So could Starfleet saying that they wanted to test variations on a 'theme' or general design parameters.

    Potentially, Starfleet could even approach one particular shipyard with a request for two separate prototypes that take a design in two somewhat different directions.

    I feel that this idea could even work in the case of the Klingons. Different houses with different ship designs. Or, even in the case of unification of the Klingons, different shipyards operated as businesses that contract with the Klingon government.

    This could explain why the ships in Discovery don't match the ones in TOS.

    And, keep in mind, this is the future. It might not be as costly and involved to create a full-scale, working prototype in the future as such things are in our here-and-now.
     
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  2. WarpFactorZ

    WarpFactorZ Commodore Commodore

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    If you squint, they look the same. This is how I approach Discovery (go to 3:11):

     
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  3. Ravenswood

    Ravenswood Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    We see two (if not three) different sets of engine nacelles on Enterprise during TOS, so it isn't hard for me to imagine she had refits and recontructions prior to Kirk. Unlike Discovery, the Enterprise is not a new ship, she is at least ten years older, probably more, and a regular in-service vessel, with a lot of light-years on her, not the top secret, brand spanking new expermental ship Discovery is. (Which also might also explain, at least in part, why Discovery looks later and higher tech than Enterprise: she is!)
     
  4. Lance

    Lance Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Logical. :vulcan: :techman:
     
  5. RedAlert

    RedAlert Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    If it is correct, then looks like Kirk received the vessel built on a cheapest construction yard of the galaxy...
     
  6. Attentiveluke

    Attentiveluke Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    DIS and TOS are set in different timelines so both ships are different. Any other explanation makes no sense.
     
  7. Tuskin38

    Tuskin38 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Nope
     
  8. Hythlodeus

    Hythlodeus Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    or...

    it is the same fucking ship.
     
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  9. PiotrB

    PiotrB Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Another visual reboot after that from TMP.
     
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  10. Korusan

    Korusan Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    Someone once told me that watching TOS is like watching someone do a Shakespearean retelling of timeline events, hence why sets look cardboard and acting/behavior more stilted. The Discovery/TMP designs would be more in line with the "reality". I think it's fitting for the show's roots.
     
  11. Tuskin38

    Tuskin38 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Gene basically said something similar back when TMP came out.
     
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  12. Butters

    Butters Commodore Commodore

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    The way I see it is that TOS was made in the Sixties, and Discovery is made now.

    I know it’s fun sometimes to hypothesise and rationalise away the visual incongruity but no in universe explanation can explain it.
     
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  13. DaveyNY

    DaveyNY Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    ... or it is so Advanced that just looking at it from the outside, belies its actual Technological Capabilities.
     
  14. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

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    [​IMG]

    I appreciate your attention to detail, and it is worthy of your namesake. However, Star Trek is not a literal telling, and is an art form. Therefor an update in method is to be expected. That is a part of art.

    [​IMG]
     
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  15. Tim Thomason

    Tim Thomason Commodore Commodore

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    I think we're supposed to imagine that the Enterprise, as it appears now, is approximately how it appeared during The Cage.

    There are indications that a refit may be imminent, and it will be redesigned into something like the TOS style, as seen in constant models in the TNG era and onscreen in Trials and TATV.

    Then, of course, the acknowledged massive refit of TMP. The point of the whole movie was that the ship had been completely redesigned and its systems were acting up. Mirroring V'ger in the twist ending.
     
  16. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

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    My larger point is simply that massive overalls are possible in a short period of time.
     
  17. starsuperion

    starsuperion Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Actually yes and no..

    You see everyone has been looking at this all wrong. It makes sense this way..

    1. TOS Enterprise exists in the Original Timeline. Which CBS owns.
    2. KELVIN Enterprise is the alternate universe era owned in part from Bad Robot and Paramount.
    3. PRIME Enterprise or STD/DISCO is the TOS knock off universe which is where the Spock in The Kelvin Movies came from. Not Original Spock, but Prime universe Spock owned by Paramount.
    Paramount bad robot are producing STD/DISCO for CBS. Merchandise can only be licensed and monitized by CBS if 25% toneally different. So what Star Trek Discovery is ultimately a clever ruse, it is not Original Trek, it is Prime trek which is the universe that preceded Kelvin, and also the new Picard show will also be set in Prime universe not the Original. CBS has new trek, and is sitting on Old Trek, basically because merchandise licensing reasons and to control Paramount since the Kelvin line was cancelled.

    Ultimately, it may be prime universe but its not the Original. So when we speak about such things we should, look at it from a 3 universe perspective. The original timeline is not being put forward here. So too are the ships. They could come back to it, if they wanted to. But with Kurtzman and Bad robot. Expect a whole new universe heavily influenced by the original, but really more in common with the Kelvin based on many shared aspects.
     
  18. Hythlodeus

    Hythlodeus Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    sounds awfully close to that nonsensical Midnight's Edge conspiracy theory bullshit
     
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  19. starsuperion

    starsuperion Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Hmmm...don't know about that. I heard about it from my friend. Then. Went and checked it out. The examples and statements all seem pretty consistent. They do certainly use the term "Prime timeline" a lot..
    If you can show me any instance that CBS or Paramount have defined the Original universe as the Prime universe, then I'll happily believe its conspiracy Bullshit. But after hearing this and looking for myself. There's NOTHING I can find that disproves the theory or explanation.

    Maybe perhaps CBS and Paramount should be asked to clarify what they mean by "Prime timeline" and how it relates to the Original universe, and Kelvin. Then we would all have that answer.
     
  20. lawman

    lawman Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Then, of course, there's this speculation interpreting the latest episode...
    (In brief: Pike shows signs of being a technological old-schooler, and he exerts significant influence over not just the Enterprise but the whole fleet once he's promoted to Fleet Captain, thus heralding the TOS look)

    Basically just a bit of implicit re-retconning to help the show correct some problems it shouldn't have caused in the first place, but it's plausible enough!...
     
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