The X-Men Cinematic Universe (General Discussion)

"That's not how it works. That's not how any of this works", especially since it's directly referenced, as noted, by other films in the franchise.

 

I guess one of the questions related to that is whether or not they can get McAvoy, Fassbender, Lawrence, & Hoult to sign on for more films (or at least McAvoy). IIRC, all 4 of them signed 3-picture deals that will be fulfilled after X-Men: Apocalypse.

Since the timeline has been rebooted, I'm wondering if this wouldn't be a good opportunity to take another shot at the Phoenix Saga and do it right this time.

As for my ranking of the films:

1. X-Men: First Class. I found this one to be the most exciting, the most well-crafted, the most emotional, the best acted, and the best scored. I love the period feel. Every time I watch it, I immediately want to watch it again. Jennifer Lawrence breaks my heart every time. (P.S. I don't know if anyone else would watch it, but I would love to see a spin-off movie that's just about young Magneto hunting down & killing Nazi war criminals. So badass! )

2. X2. Special effects have advanced a lot since 2003. The FX work is very good in X2 but it also has a much smaller scale than the kind of super hero movies that we're used to now. Nevertheless, Bryan Singer did an excellent job of turning the comic book into a well crafted sci-fi franchise with characters that we care about. For me, it's kinda hard to separate X-Men & X2 because I love them both so much. But I give a slight edge to X2 because Singer's film-making seems more confident the 2nd time out.

3. X-Men. Considering this was the first big movie of the great super hero boom of the 21st century, it feels a bit hesitant at times. But the Wolverine/Rogue scenes are some of my favorite in the entire series.
"Where am I supposed to go?"
"I don't know."
"You don't know or you don't care?"
"Pick one."
"I saved your life!"
"No you didn't!"

4. X-Men: Days of Future Past. The movie gains a lot of points for Bryan Singer's involvement, for using the First Class cast, and for using time travel to link the First Class cast with the original cast. However, it loses points for killing off several of the First Class characters off screen and for limiting Havoc to only one scene.

5. The Wolverine. The story gains a lot of production value simply by setting the action in Japan and letting the feel of the location drive the mood of the film. I love the team-up between Wolverine & Yukio and I hope she comes back for Wolverine 3. Unfortunately, the movie gets a little too crazy with the giant samurai robot at the end. And while Wolverine is severely weakened for much of the film, it never seems quite clear how weakened he's supposed to be. Also, they make no mention of Wolverine's amnesia, which was such an important part of his character previously.

6. X-Men Origins: Wolverine. It's not a great movie but it's solid. And a great supporting cast with Liev Schreiber, Danny Huston, & Dominic Monaghan helps to compensate for any weaknesses.

7. X-Men: The Last Stand. The plot is just way too underdeveloped. Although, in this age of never-ending franchises, I appreciate that it has the guts to try to end the series. And while the quiet emotional moments don't resonate as well as they do in Singer's movies, the big emotional moments still do, like Professor Xavier's death, Magneto losing his powers, and Wolverine killing Jean Grey.

Disqualified: Deadpool. Regardless of the merits of the film, I don't think it counts as an X-Men film. There's too much 4th wall breaking, including several references to the X-Men film franchise itself. Plus, it's hard to reconcile the movie's chronology with Deadpool's previous appearance in X-Men Origins: Wolverine. Also, Colossus seems a lot older here than he did in any of the other films, including Days of Future Past.

 

Saying The Wolverine "ignores" Origins is like saying Star Trek Insurrection "ignores" First Contact. Just because it doesn't mention the Borg (apart from the Admirals little line of UFP threats) and doesn't specifically follow up on the plot points of FC. Or how Wrath of Khan "ignores" TMP. Not every movie in a franchise has to be a direct sequel.



So what would be people like to see the next X-Men movie be about?

I'll ask this now before Apocalypse comes out, as maybe there'll be a clue and it will render the question moot (like how DOFP's end credit scene told us the next one would be about Apocalypse)
A Phoenix saga done even half way right has already been mentioned above and that's what I thought too. You could easily make it vastly different to X3. Or how about something totally new? I love Fassbender but if he really does want to move on maybe its a blessing in disguise, I'd like to see an X-movie that doesn't have to have Magneto be the villain all the time. There are plenty of other choices to use, Mr Sinister perhaps?

 

Since they've incorporated time travel and alternate timelines into the series with DoFP, maybe now they could do something with aliens. We have already met two of the Summers Bros. so now could be a good time to bring in #3 and dad.

 

Unfortunately, it counts as an X-Men film whether people like you and me want it to.

Not really. The events of O:W didn't happen in the altered timeline, and so Wade Wilson was born later. It's the 'ripple effect' principle that Netherrealm Studios used in Mortal Kombat and Mortal Kombat X, and that is being used in X-Men Apocalypse.

That's not a problem, since Deadpool takes place, I believe, in 2016.

 

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(I kid, I kid. Again.)

I'm no X-pert, but that sounds to me like a third movie with the young Cyke/Jean crew, not the second...

As for the rest, I'll refrain from speculation until after Apocalypse, I guess.

 

But the Colossus scenes of DOFP take place in something like 2023.

 

This.

Kor

 

Whats's your point?

By the time of the DoFP future (altered timeline), most of the X-Men characters we're already familiar with are advancing in age by human standards, so I don't see what the problem is re: Colossus' mannerisms in Deadpool and what they say vis a vis his age in that film.

 

Sorry for the double-post, but I wanted to say that (re)watching the first X-Men film with background knowledge of First Class, Origins: Wolverine, and the "bent bullet" and "Trask Industries"/"Sentinel Project" elements of DoFP's "original timeline" backstory gives the movie so many more layers than it already had just as a "sstandalone"feature.

 

Butterfly wings and all that. The timeline is all over the place, with multiple version of characters and conflicting ages. It's easier to just say, "It all counts, even the stuff that contradicts the other stuff."

 

It seemed to be another universe to me. The biggest tell was the X-Mansion itself; in Deadpool's universe the hedges were all hugs (Os), rather than kisses (Xs). Which I'm pretty sure was shown in either the first or second X-Men movie.

 

It's set in the altered post-DoFP timeline; that was pretty clearly established by the people involved in making it.

 

No one would ever change their hedges after a decade.

 

This isn't even a contradiction anyway. This Colossus is literally the only data point we have for what Colossus is like in the new (post-DoFP) timeline, so he is the new standard, not some 'aberration' of what the previous movies did. And he clearly has led a very different life as a result of the time changes (witness the Russian accent, less closed off personality, extreme height difference, etc). A person can easily look older (or younger) simply as the result of making different life choices/having different experiences.

I'd say it's pretty much undeniable that Deadpool is an X-Men universe movie - certainly trying to disqualify it on the basis of continuity issues is ridiculous, since First Class caused far more significant ones and Apocalypse is set to introduce at least one other totally inexplicable one (how changing the timeline in 1973 can somehow cause a person who was supposed to be born in the late 80s/early 90s to suddenly have been born in the mid/late 60s, before the timeline was even changed).

One thing I do think about Deadpool is that while it's definitely the same universe, it's probably not 100% a reliable description of that universe. It's all slightly filtered through Deadpool's general wackiness, leaving a certain distortion on characters (I've seen this in plenty of Deadpool comics and the movie seems to be pretty much the same idea), so I would say Colossus probably does look like that, but the personality is less what Colossus really is and more what Deadpool thinks of Colossus.

 

Probably would be an understatement. Deadpool can see out of his universe and into ours.

 

That saying "It's not a problem because Deadpool takes place in 2016", in response to the observation that Deadpool's Colossus is older than DOFP's Colossus, doesn't make sense.

How does leading a different life lead to an extreme height difference?

 

Different nutrition over long periods of time in early childhood. Easy. (Original Colossus was actually growth-stunted Colossus and had the genetic capacity to be much taller)

Or just as easy, considering the kind of world they live in, one or the other of him was subject to some sort of mutant experimentation at some point, which either stunted or accelerated his growth.

 

When they move on from period pieces and bring things up to date (a couple of movies time ?) it would be an ideal time to recast again. A time jump is a useful handwave to explain away characters getting new heads !

Mind you, I hope they've had the sense to get the new young cast under contract for multiple films. They might manage to keep McAvoy with 'guest' spots, but Lawrence, Fassbender, Hoult and co. aren't going to be around indefinitely...

 

I considered suggesting that the X-Men version of "a wizard did it", or "a mutant did it", could have been a factor.