News The Strange New Worlds thread (news 'n stuff)

Discussion in 'Future of Trek' started by The CW, Feb 6, 2020.

  1. Yistaan

    Yistaan Commodore Commodore

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    Maybe they date Uhura's Starfleet career as starting as when she graduated from the Academy and she's a cadet in SNW. Chapel? We have to double check the Korby episode for that I guess.

    You think Memory Alpha is bad? The official website still says Spock was the first Vulcan in Starfleet even though Terral is shown in Disco.
     
  2. Donald G

    Donald G Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    "Spock, why didn't you tell me that a Noonien-Singh once served with you on Chris Pike's Enterprise?"

    " It did not appear to be relevant information at the time, Captain." Spock did not add that it was one of the many matters Starfleet had forbidden him to speak of under penalty of treason.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2021
  3. FederationHistorian

    FederationHistorian Captain Captain

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    I’m not bothered by the appearance of legacy characters in Uhura and M’Benga; they were bound to appear in the series at some point. But why did they cast someone separate for Chapel, instead of just let it be a double role for Romijn, and be a running joke how both characters are never in the same room? They could not have just casted for a different nurse? Like maybe Boyce’s daughter, to help explain why he’s not on the Enterprise anymore?

    I’m also skeptical about this La’an Noonien Singh character. I want to be optimistic and believe her character will shed a bit of backstory on the Eugenics Wars. But I have a feeling she’s only there so that an SNW character can scream “LA’AN!” at some point.

    The connection to Enterprise seems to be the Aenar-looking Andorian. Not sure if he's a direct descendent of Jhamel though.
     
  4. Orphalesion

    Orphalesion Commodore Commodore

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    Well Fan service or not, I'm primarily excited for Uhura, because I hope she'll finally get some focus in this show (same is true, to a much lesser extend für Chapel)
    And I'm primarily excited for M'Benga because he's not Boyce.
     
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  5. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I was speaking vaguely and more generally about Uhura and what Memory Alpha cites about her. In specific, it states that she received her "first assignment on space duty" (emphasis mine) in 2265.
     
  6. Jinn

    Jinn Mistress of the Chaotic Energies Rear Admiral

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    And yet Memory Alpha isn't canon. "What Are Little Girls Made Of?" does not mention Starfleet at all. The line MA uses is "I understand you gave up a career in bio-research to sign aboard a starship." That does not mean that Chapel wasn't in Starfleet before or even that she didn't serve on a starship before, just that prior to being assigned to the Enterprise under Kirk she was doing bio-research off-ship. It doesn't contradict canon, it just contradicts our assumptions about canon.

    Uhura being in Starfleet since 2265 is from "The Search for Spock", where she is called a twenty year space veteran. In that same movie the Enterprise is called twenty years old, which is obviously wildly incorrect, so I think it isn't a leap to dismiss both statements. Furthermore she is only a cadet here, and it is also reasonable to assume that the "vetaran" part only refers to her post-graduation period. Even furthermore, the person who made the statement was an unnamed random Starfleet person, there is no need to assume that he knows precisely when other members joined the service.
     
  7. Yistaan

    Yistaan Commodore Commodore

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    It already pulls me out of the universe that Chapel, Number One, and Lwaxana all look like Majel. With all due respect to the late actress and Trek figure, I'm fine with in the Trek universe having Number One "really" look like Rebecca, Chapel "really" look like Jess Bush, and Majel being the "canonical" face of Lwaxana Troi.
     
  8. Grendelsbayne

    Grendelsbayne Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    That just reduces the Chapel character to a joke (which will get tiresome very quickly, too). It's far better to make both of them fully realized independent characters so that they can be fully fleshed out without any arbitrary and stupid limitations (like never being allowed to be in the same room, or always having to explain why they look alike).
     
  9. Iamnotspock

    Iamnotspock Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Indeed. Plus, people round up and down all the time; how much did Mr. Adventure really know? Memory Alpha is bound to what's on screen, not the other way around. If such irrelevant minutiae is contradicted, so what?
     
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  10. Ghouleddie74

    Ghouleddie74 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Fleet Admiral Morrow - THE HEAD OF STARFLEET ITSELF - thought the Federation's most famous starship was half her actual age. I rest my case.
     
  11. Tuskin38

    Tuskin38 Admiral Admiral

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    Well that's not 100% true. The wiki uses info from off screen sources. For example ship class names, like the Akira class. It is never called Akira class on screen, the name ever shows up on any on screen graphics, it comes solely from production sources, and is noted as such on the page.

    Almost all the ships in Star Trek Discovery, M-A uses their class names from off screen sources.

    https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Akira_class#Background_information

    https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Memory_Alpha:Resource_policy
    https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Memory_Alpha:Content_policy

    For years it used the TOS Tech Manual dimensions for the Enterprise, even though they were never on screen until Discovery.

    So no, Memory-Alpha isn't strictly or exclusively on screen information. They only primarily catalogue things from the shows/movies yes, but info isn't strictly from what was shown/mentioned on screen.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2021
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  12. Yistaan

    Yistaan Commodore Commodore

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    Morrow was obviously, uh, counting from when the Enterprise was refit after its endurance rating of 18 years after 2245 was depleted.
     
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  13. Tuskin38

    Tuskin38 Admiral Admiral

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    Don't embed images from wikia pages, it doesn't work. Re-upload them or find them somewhere else.
     
  14. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I stand corrected.

    My point was that Memory Alpha makes specific citations with regards to Uhura and Chapel that Strange New Worlds is directly contradicting.
     
  15. WarpFactorZ

    WarpFactorZ Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Spock Prime: "As you know, I have made a vow never to give you information that could potentially alter your destiny. Your path is yours to walk, and yours alone. That being said, Khan Noonien Singh is the most dangerous adversary the Enterprise ever faced. He is brilliant, ruthless, and he will not hesitate to kill every single one of you.... But his great-great-great-great-great-great-great grand-daughter is an absolute delight to work with!"
     
  16. Tuskin38

    Tuskin38 Admiral Admiral

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    Except Jinn just pointed out that the Wiki was wrong about that as well.
     
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  17. Groot

    Groot Boomer American Premium Member

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    You're wrong.

    MA comes up with those dates by inference from information presented on-screen. There is nothing hard and fixed and established about many of them. Having Uhura aboard the ship as early as 2266 - the earliest date at which they can establish her service based on the information they have - does not authoritatively contradict her having been there earlier.

    Nor does a line of dialogue spoken by a character who is not established as correct and authoritative - "Mr. Adventure" in ST:TSFS.

    The same is true for their entry on Chapel. They can reasonably establish her as being aboard Enterprise as early as 2266. They can not rule out the possibility of her being there later, because there is a lack of sufficient canonical information.

    You can't just claim these things as "established facts" and expect people here not to know better.
     
  18. Yistaan

    Yistaan Commodore Commodore

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    even if memory alpha is "right" about something, if it's citing a line of dialogue that still leaves open the possibility that the person or computer reciting the dialogue was lying or mistaken.
     
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  19. Groot

    Groot Boomer American Premium Member

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    Yes. Statements made by characters in-universe about what we don't see are necessarily less reliable than events that we witness take place onscreen.
     
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  20. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Strange New Worlds is contradicting previous StarTrek, even if rationalizations can be conjured to explain said contradictions.
     
  21. FederationHistorian

    FederationHistorian Captain Captain

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    And it never bothered me that Una, Chapel, and Lwaxana were played by the same person, especially since they are in different eras/centuries and never interacted with one another.

    Or they could both be fleshed out regardless. And not being in the same room isn’t a limitation at all, unless you lack creativity.

    It would an in-joke that’s no different than what’s on LD.