Spoilers The Strange New Worlds Starship Thread™

[passinglurker]

Funny I don't remember seeing any of that on the screen. Star Trek Cannon is only what's on screen. So that's what I use when making my arguments.

Cause you weren't paying close enough attention. For example The Titan-A has every ship that bore its name up on the wall in the ready room, a Shangri La, a Luna, and a Neo-Connie, we can infer that Neo-Connie is bigger than Shangri La because all of 25th century starfleet's throwback classes like the Sager class vs the Constellation class are also clearly larger then their inspirations. I could go on but you'd clearly be better served by going back and reviewing on screen details yourself.

Meanwhile you have nothing to support that Excelsior is older than TSFS other than they neglected to bluntly say "its amazing captain DID YOU KNOW THIS CLASS DIDN'T EXIST BEFORE X DATE!?" there are no hints to its design language or progenitors before that movie it can only be infered to be a transformative generational step until new on screen information to the contrary is presented.

 

[fireproof78]

I just thought the Excelsior was new. Kirk, being an admiral, knew about it. The rest only heard about it and hadn't seen it.

That's it. I don't see it as more complicated than that.

 

[KirkusOveractus]

I just thought the Excelsior was new. Kirk, being an admiral, knew about it. The rest only heard about it and hadn't seen it.

That's it. I don't see it as more complicated than that.

And as far as I know, that was the inference in the movie that Excelsior was the next step in starships. Sometimes people have trouble with subtleties and inference and need everything explicitly said.

 

[Racefuel]

There's some...impressive anger going on right now for seemingly no reason..but that is very Trek BBS..so I guess it checks out

 

[Racefuel]

Also, about Excelsior..

The "NX" would indicate it is a new, experimental ship. If we look at all the previous NX's, prior to Enterprise at least, they were all the first or experimental ships. Defiant, Prometheus, etc.

The scrambling for "well Excelsior could have been an old refit ship" is a reach beyond the reasonable, otherwise why wouldn't Enterprise have been "NX-1701" in TMP?

 

[Dukhat]

Funny I don't remember seeing any of that on the screen. Star Trek Cannon is only what's on screen. So that's what I use when making my arguments.

Except everything we saw on screen indicates that the Excelsior design was a brand new ship. Even future on-screen productions bear this out. It’s your head-canon that is making you think otherwise.

 

[137th Gebirg]

I somehow gather that the reference to the Excelsior going back to TWOK in the "cut" travel pod conversation between Sulu and Kirk might be somewhat responsible for all this confusion. According to Takei, when he said "I'm delighted. Any chance to go aboard the Enterprise..." was going to continue on to talk about his promotion as Captain of the Excelsior with Kirk. The scene in question:

29 INT. SPACE SHUTTLE 29
A new composite. Bones, Sulu, Uhura and Kirk -- who
sits, reading. Through the windows we can see the
approach to the starship ENTERPRISE. Kirk looks up,
nods. Sulu activates a comm button.

SULU
Enterprise, this is Admiral Kirk's
party on final approach.

ENTERPRISE VOICE
(filtered)
Enterprise welcomes you. Prepare
for docking.

Kirk looks up from his book as Sulu sits next to him.

KIRK
I really must thank you.

SULU
(embarrassed)
I am delighted; any chance to go
aboard Enterprise, however briefly,
is always an excuse for nostalgia.

KIRK
I cut your new orders personally. By
the end of the month, you'll have your
first command: USS EXCELSIOR.

SULU
Thank you, sir. I've looked
forward to this for a long time.

KIRK
You've earned it. But I'm still
grateful to have you at the helm
for three weeks. I don't believe
these kids can steer.

Sulu laughs.

Takei's perpetual haranguing about that cut by Shatner at conventions and in interviews has fueled their seemingly endless (and arguably one-way) feud for decades, and I suspect has inserted some "soft-canon" retcon in the greater fandom zeitgeist.

It would make sense that a new prototype, the relative scope of the Excelsior, would take years to construct and an Admiral like Kirk would be well aware of its existence. From a purely "on-screen" canonical POV, however, she simply doesn't exist until first seen in TSFS.

 

[Noname Given]

Except everything we saw on screen indicates that the Excelsior design was a brand new ship. Even future on-screen productions bear this out. It’s your head-canon that is making you think otherwise.

Which productions? Seriously, cite one that shows conclusively that the USS Excelsior is a 100% brand new design based off nothing pervious. (Again, not trying to be argumentative per se, but if you say such has been shown/explicitly stated in on screen canon, I'll concede.)

 

[Mudd]

Excelsior is new in TSFS - "the Great Experiment."

 

[KirkusOveractus]

Excelsior is new in TSFS - "the Great Experiment."

...ready for trial runs. And despite the cut dialog from TWOK, Sulu mentions the transwarp drive as if he isn't familiar with the ship along with a look of wonder.

 

[Tuskin38]

Ortegas appears to have an NX-Class model in her quarters as well
https://twitter.com/gaghyogi49/status/1678471650197512199

 

[137th Gebirg]

...ready for trial runs. And despite the cut dialog from TWOK, Sulu mentions the transwarp drive as if he isn't familiar with the ship along with a look of wonder.

And Scotty with a look of disgust.

 

[Macintosh]

The scene in question:

Is that from the original script? It's not quite the dialogue as recorded but not used:

SULU: Enterprise, this is Admiral Kirk's party on final approach.
ENTERPRISE: Enterprise welcomes you. Prepare for docking.
KIRK: I hate inspections.
SULU: I'm delighted. Any chance to go aboard the Enterprise, however briefly, is always an excuse for nostalgia.
KIRK: With Spock as captain you don't think I'm going to have to turn anything out, do you? By the end of the month you'll have your own command, the USS Excelsior.
MCCOY: Oh! Congratulations commander.
SULU: Thank you sir. I've been looking forward to that for a long time.
KIRK: Well I for one am glad to have you at the helm for three weeks. I don't think these kids can steer.

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[137th Gebirg]

It's probably one of many drafts floating around out there. The one I quoted was used from a thread dating back to 2009 on this particular topic. The general gist of the dialog is present.

 

[Racefuel]

I always find it interesting that Sulu lept from a Lt Commander as Helmsman of the Enterprise to commanding officer of the largest, most advanced ship in the fleet.

But ah well, fantasy world.

 

[KirkusOveractus]

It's probably one of many drafts floating around out there. The one I quoted was used from a thread dating back to 2009 on this particular topic. The general gist of the dialog is present.

I think it's in the novelization, too, which was based on the shooting script.

 

[fireproof78]

I always find it interesting that Sulu lept from a Lt Commander as Helmsman of the Enterprise to commanding officer of the largest, most advanced ship in the fleet.

But ah well, fantasy world.

I mean, he could have had sufficient time in grade, but the Enterprise had enough commander's billets. He eventually was able to move up rapidly.

I know it ignores time in grade for commander but as you say, fantasy world.

 

[Dukhat]

Which productions? Seriously, cite one that shows conclusively that the USS Excelsior is a 100% brand new design based off nothing pervious. (Again, not trying to be argumentative per se, but if you say such has been shown/explicitly stated in on screen canon, I'll concede.)

In PIC, there is a plaque at Starfleet Command listing the Excelsior as being in service from 2285 to 2320, and that Styles was its first captain.

 

[Racefuel]

Its entirely possible that Excelsior was imagined as a more routine/base level ship, but since the scene was cut in TWOK they just reused the name.

 

[137th Gebirg]

That does pose an interesting question - if that line had stayed in TWOK, would Excelsior still be named NX-2000 Excelsior in TSFS? Compounded with the extra complexity of Sulu actually being given command of an upgraded NCC-2000 Excelsior by TUC.