They really need to bump up the scale of the Excelsior. Anything south of 500+ meters, really doesn't work.
Spoilers The Strange New Worlds Starship Thread™
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They really need to bump up the scale of the Excelsior. Anything south of 500+ meters, really doesn't work.
Using my unfinished 1:1000 Excelsior model and my yet to be started 1:1000 scale Refit Enterprise Bridge, you can really see just how much 467m, or even 511m, doesn't really work.
Keeping in mind that the actual studio model puts a Ent-D style conference lounge behind the bridge.
Keeping in mind that the actual studio model puts a Ent-D style conference lounge behind the bridge.
I'll make a guess that you know this, but the lounge was added for Star Trek VI. (right?)
Yes. The Search for Spock Bridge was very different
IIRC, the windows imply 700m+.Using my unfinished 1:1000 Excelsior model and my yet to be started 1:1000 scale Refit Enterprise Bridge, you can really see just how much 467m, or even 511m, doesn't really work.
Keeping in mind that the actual studio model puts a Ent-D style conference lounge behind the bridge.
The Grissom has the same issue, she's got to be around 300m if any of the windows (and interiors) are to be taken seriously. ILM just did whatever they wanted.
If we use the Disco/SNW length for the Enterprise and scale up the Refit, Miranda, Constellation, Excelsior and Oberth accordingly, they fit better into the visuals, remove the massive jump in size from the Ent B to the Ent C and also help explain/excuse the Titan A design better. As well as explaining the Sovereign class as a replacement for the Excelsiors (I know there's an Excelsior II but there can be more than one replacement design).
Yeah, so many of the problems with scaling seem to come from this diagram.
The Grissom is absolutely tiny! Doesn’t really go with what we saw on screen, especially when we get into TNG...
Agreed! I'm not sure who it was who made this size chart, but to me, it's almost perfect. Though I would probably make the Excelsior even bigger.
Bumping up the scales of various ships would also go a long way into helping shots like these make a little more sense...
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The Excelsior should be longer than the Ambassador, almost Galaxy length, as long as the internal Volume increase its good. The important thing is to preserve Scotty's line about the Excelsior being a big ship, in comparison to the Constitution class.
The Excelsior is fine. It’s the Stargazer that got blown up to probably 20% bigger than it should have been.
I think the Excelsior size fits without changing. It’s a step up in tech but not in general frame size. Future ships get bloated like the abssador or galaxy while mission specific ships retain that simpler frame.
Love how that size chart works out. Fixes the longstanding TOS scale problems while simultaneously matching much better with what was depicted on-screen in TNG.Agreed! I'm not sure who it was who made this size chart, but to me, it's almost perfect. Though I would probably make the Excelsior even bigger.
Bumping up the scales of various ships would also go a long way into helping shots like these make a little more sense...
And with the TOS connie never really getting a reliable length stated clearly on-screen, while SNW more firmly establishes a hard canonical number with the dedication plaque and also the on-screen length of the Sombra class graphic (which uses the same frame), there's little justification left to use the old number besides old habits dying hard.
also makes the Refit make more sense.
That chart makes the E-A's primary hull look as big as the Excelsior's/E-B's.
Window & docking ring scales are all off...
Sorry, no. Objectively wrong.
Window & docking ring scales are all off...
Sorry, no. Objectively wrong.
yeah im sure the size of the windows is way more important than... the doorways being big enough for people to walk through without ducking.
Which is what they'd have to do in a 289m Enterprise. The decks couldn't be greater than 8 feet and then you subtract even more for the space between decks and, well... let's just say that the only people walking around the Enterprise comfortably would be from Keenser's species, or maybe some Ithenites.
Is it "objectively wrong" that Kirk has enough room to stand fully upright in his quarters? The windows being a little oversized vs Spock crawling on all fours to the bridge, you decide.
(According to EAS, the windows on the Excelsior never made sense to begin with so they make a poor point of reference)
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what's with the obsession with the 288.6 meter length anyway?
It's what the designers said that it was, and it's subsequently what the Motion Picture Enterprise was based on. So then it's also what they based the size of the Galaxy class on.
Has the new number been shown any more clearly on screen than the graphic in the Enterprise Incident was? Besides, it wasn't like like someone reverse engineered all these stats from TOS later, because the designers were unclear. These are coming straight from the production and Matt Jefferies. (Which, I suppose, SNW is doing better than what JJ ever gave us. Because he didn't want conversations exactly like this.)
Saying that "Oh, well, we have new stuff, so why even bother with the old stuff" is a little like the kid who killed his parents that then wanted leniency for being an orphan. It's self fulfilling.
I'm not saying that SNW can't go in a different direction. But be clear that it is only because they wanted to. Not because the old stats "didn't work". World War III can't be in 1996. But the Enterprise can certainly still be ~1000 feet long.
The first designs for the Enterprise when they were going to make a movie back in the 1970's were much much MUCH larger (because, why make a TV show?). Then when they actually made the Motion Picture that set of designers stuck much closer to the scale and the layout of the TV show. They could have made all the changes that SNW is making now back then with far more justification. But they didn't.
So make the Excelsior bigger, as has been discussed. It's scale has never made much sense. Even less when I add this MSD to the mix....
Wasn't the TOS Enterprise originally designed to be much smaller? Indeed, I seem to recall it originally was supposed to only have a single deck in the saucer rim. The windows even conveyed this in "The Cage". We even have this diagram still on the bridge.
Something left over from when she was supposed to be smaller.
doesn't 442 meters more sense with the interiors?
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