The Stargate Franchise - A First Timer's Watchthrough

[tomalak301]

Talion (SG-1)

How long has it been since we've had a Teal'c episode, and one as amazing and this just was? In many ways in terms of the relationship between Bra'tac and Teal'c (Namely the ending where Bra'tac says Teal'c is the son he never had), it reminded me of my favorite Teal'c episode up to now, Season 6's The Changeling. If I had one highlight watching this series (And there were many), it was watching this relationship grow and develop. This episode also reveals stuff about Teal'c mother, how she was killed and the bombing of the peace summitt by Arkad brought back some harsh memories of that event. The rampage Teal'c then goes on was great and that final fight sequence was probably one of the goriest sequences I've seen in any Stargate so far. Also, the scene where Teal'c has Bak'al tied up and said he replaced the symbiote with a bomb was great. I thought he was bluffing but when Bak'al actually did explode, I was like, holy crap.

The last two episodes felt like this series was starting to get tired. This episode brought the arc back in a big way. I also just read this is the final appearence of Bra'tac in the series. This was a great way to go out and I'm so glad they didn't pull a Jacob and kill him off. I think it's safe to say that Bra'tac will go down as my favorite recurring guest character in the franchise. Tony Amendola played him so well and his chemistry with Judge was consistently excellent.

What is with the IOA anyway. They really are a bunch of bureaucrats, not knowing what is really going on out there. First they want to kill Daniel and now they almost fell for Akad's trap, nearly sacrificing Teal'c.

 

[Romulan_spy]

Also, the scene where Teal'c has Bak'al tied up and said he replaced the symbiote with a bomb was great. I thought he was bluffing but when Bak'al actually did explode, I was like, holy crap.

ie, Teal'c goes Jack Bauer. It was definitely a "holy crap" moment.

The next episode "Family Ties" is really bad IMO.

Spoiler

who thought it was a good idea 3 eps from the end of the entire series to do a "daddy issues" episode with Fred Willard as a con artist?

But the last two episodes "Dominion" and "Unending" are great.

 

[Morpheus 02]

I also just read this is the final appearence of Bra'tac in the series. This was a great way to go out and I'm so glad they didn't pull a Jacob and kill him off. I think it's safe to say that Bra'tac will go down as my favorite recurring guest character in the franchise. Tony Amendola played him so well and his chemistry with Judge was consistently excellent.

And let's not forget the mutual respect with "Hammond of Texas".

@tomalak301 i missed a lot in this thread....

After a season of Lt. FORD on Atlantis and Cam on SG-1... what were your thoughts on them?

I felt like Lt. Ford was a missed opportunity. He was a "veteran" of the SG program (the way he first playfully fell through the gate). He should have been correcting Shepatd several times on proper procedures for team activities and maybe working with Teyla on first contact situations. They could have done some SG-8 (or whatever team) flashbacks too.

With Cam... he should have been on a different SG team previously. It would have made his SG-1 assignment more believable...also flashbacks which insert him in the background of important scenes. Basically showing how he grew to respect the team.

I like the character...just wish they gave a better back story.

 

[The Wormhole]

I hope this is the end of the Lucian Alliance.

As far as SG-1 goes, yeah, it is the last of the Lucian Alliance. The come back at some point later in the franchise, and really, it's worst than any of their SG-1 appearances.

What is with the IOA anyway. They really are a bunch of bureaucrats, not knowing what is really going on out there. First they want to kill Daniel and now they almost fell for Akad's trap, nearly sacrificing Teal'c.

They basically generic bureaucrats so inept it makes them villainous. Although very soon they actually become actual villains with one of their ploys. Basically the writers felt the Stargate franchise needed corrupt authority figures. The NID is played out, they can't vilify the US military or government lest the Air Force pull their support of the show, so that leaves a fictional oversight committee comprised of squabbling international dignitaries who are so indecisive they pose a danger. Or when they do make a firm decision, it's always the wrong one.

 

[tomalak301]

After a season of Lt. FORD on Atlantis and Cam on SG-1... what were your thoughts on them?

I almost forgot Ford was on Atlantis. I liked the direction they took with him but I think they could have gone further with it. He was not used very much in Season 1 so making him an antagonist was a good idea but then that storyline kinda just dropped, so far. I'm not sure if he will come back but I'm almost done with season 3 and he's nowhere to be found. I almost feel like the introduction of the Replicator storyline has ended up putting that Ford storyline out to pasture.

As for Cam, now that I'm nearly done with the series, I really wish they had gone with the idea of just doing a Stargate Spin Off series featuring Browder (and Black if you wanted) with the occasional apparences of the older crew. I'm not sure you can relegate Browder to a supporting role, but I think it would have been better than having him be the new Jack. You really can't replace Jack O'Neill, and Jack's many apparences this season on the two shows remind me just how great of a character he was and how much chemistry he had with the rest of SG-1, especially Tapping and Shanks. I like Cam as a character and Season 9 and 10 have been pretty good, but it's nowhere near the the peek of this series, which I think was Season 5 and 6.

 

[bigdaddy]

ie, Teal'c goes Jack Bauer. It was definitely a "holy crap" moment.

The next episode "Family Ties" is really bad IMO.

Spoiler

who thought it was a good idea 3 eps from the end of the entire series to do a "daddy issues" episode with Fred Willard as a con artist?

But the last two episodes "Dominion" and "Unending" are great.

I've always wondered if they wrote the end of season 10 after finding out they were canceled. Because the end of the season feels flat, like they hit pause for the movie to take up what they want to cover instead of laying the groundwork for a season 11 and a big cliffhanger.

And let's not forget the mutual respect with "Hammond of Texas".

@tomalak301 i missed a lot in this thread....

After a season of Lt. FORD on Atlantis and Cam on SG-1... what were your thoughts on them?

I felt like Lt. Ford was a missed opportunity. He was a "veteran" of the SG program (the way he first playfully fell through the gate). He should have been correcting Shepatd several times on proper procedures for team activities and maybe working with Teyla on first contact situations. They could have done some SG-8 (or whatever team) flashbacks too..

My main problem with Atlantis besides rehashes like the replicators is how the writers wrote and treated a lot of characters, not just Ford. Ford should have never been replaced, he should have been given more to do and grew as a character. Even if they wanted to reduce his role and introduce new people. I think he would have been great leading his own team, like Atlantis SG-2. But nope.

 

[Romulan_spy]

I've always wondered if they wrote the end of season 10 after finding out they were canceled. Because the end of the season feels flat, like they hit pause for the movie to take up what they want to cover instead of laying the groundwork for a season 11 and a big cliffhanger.

I think I read somewhere that Ark of Truth was going to be season 11. So the writers basically took the ideas for season 11 and condensed it into a movie. So the feeling of season 10 ending on a flat note makes sense if the writers were planning a season 11 to wrap up the Ori arc.

 

[Romulan_spy]

My main problem with Atlantis besides rehashes like the replicators is how the writers wrote and treated a lot of characters, not just Ford. Ford should have never been replaced, he should have been given more to do and grew as a character. Even if they wanted to reduce his role and introduce new people. I think he would have been great leading his own team, like Atlantis SG-2. But nope.

Spoiler: Atlantis

It seems like Atlantis had a lot of cast changes. We get Ford being written out. Ronon is brought in. Weir is killed off, only to bring her back as a replicator for a follow up episode. then Carter is the new leader only to be replaced by Woolsey. And of course, Beckett is killed off too only to come back as a clone. And the new doctor Keller is brought on. I don't know if it was planned that way to create drama in the story-telling but it seems like a lot.

 

[bigdaddy]

I think I read somewhere that Ark of Truth was going to be season 11. So the writers basically took the ideas for season 11 and condensed it into a movie. So the feeling of season 10 ending on a flat note makes sense if the writers were planning a season 11 to wrap up the Ori arc.

Yes Ark of Truth was going to be season 11, but it doesn't explain season 10 kind of fizzing out. I guess I'm wondering if 'Unending' was always the end game of season 10 or if they were planning a big cliffhanger to launch season 11.

 

[bigdaddy]

Spoiler: Atlantis

It seems like Atlantis had a lot of cast changes. We get Ford being written out. Ronon is brought in. Weir is killed off, only to bring her back as a replicator for a follow up episode. then Carter is the new leader only to be replaced by Woolsey. And of course, Beckett is killed off too only to come back as a clone. And the new doctor Keller is brought on. I don't know if it was planned that way to create drama in the story-telling but it seems like a lot.

Wasn't planned, they were just throwing shit to the wall and see what stick.

Spoiler

More so with Ford and Weir. Ford they realized was pointless and instead of giving a back story ditched him for Aquaman. Weir was just a stupid ass move that even pissed off the actress as she moved to Canada just because she thought she would have the job for 6 years. None of Atlantis I think was planned out more than a season at a time.

 

[Romulan_spy]

Wasn't planned, they were just throwing shit to the wall and see what stick.

Spoiler

More so with Ford and Weir. Ford they realized was pointless and instead of giving a back story ditched him for Aquaman. Weir was just a stupid ass move that even pissed off the actress as she moved to Canada just because she thought she would have the job for 6 years. None of Atlantis I think was planned out more than a season at a time.

Yeah, it really shows.

 

[bigdaddy]

Yeah, it really shows.

If you think about it, they were planning Atlantis since SG1 season 3 or 4. That's several years, probably why season 1 is the best. But what they had planned was completely different. Atlantis isn't on Earth, Earth doesn't know of the Stargate, No Jonas even.

But if you think about it, most of SG1 wasn't planned. Season 6 was to be the last, then season 7, then season 8. So all of those were planned only that season and that's hugely impressive.

 

[Jayson1]

Planning can sometimes be changed if you don't like the results your getting. I think most changes on the show was simply because they were always wanting to improve it. Atlantis did know one thing though and it's strength and appeal was in the character dynamics of Shepard and McKay and Ronan was fun as a action hero. Teyla they never fully sure what to do with her but they also I suspect didn't want to bring in someone else because of all the other changes. The show was great because of it's characters more than it's story arc's IMO. I think that is even case with Stargate. Fun characters and some fun action adventure stuff. Stargate isn't Trek were your trying to explore deeper themes usually. It's a action series at it's heart.

Jason

 

[JD]

Most shows are only planned out one season at a time, so I've never held that against the people behind a show.

 

[tomalak301]

Family Ties (SG-1)

I can describe this episode in 3 words:

I DON'T CARE!!!!

Three episodes from the end of this series and that's what they come up with? Daddy issues for Vala and Landry? The only scene that was memorable was the very last scene with Teal'c and the Vagina speech, but again, there is an Ori fleet invading our galaxy, we don't know what happened with Merlin's weapon (Yes I know we find out the next episode because Adria is back), and I don't care about Vala's father. In fact, I think Vala might be this shows 7 of 9 (And I like Seven) in terms of overused character. I liked her, but the emphasis for her over the course of this season has been a little too much.

 

[Romulan_spy]

Family Ties (SG-1)

I can describe this episode in 3 words:

I DON'T CARE!!!!

Three episodes from the end of this series and that's what they come up with? Daddy issues for Vala and Landry? The only scene that was memorable was the very last scene with Teal'c and the Vagina speech, but again, there is an Ori fleet invading our galaxy, we don't know what happened with Merlin's weapon (Yes I know we find out the next episode because Adria is back), and I don't care about Vala's father. In fact, I think Vala might be this shows 7 of 9 (And I like Seven) in terms of overused character. I liked her, but the emphasis for her over the course of this season has been a little too much.

Yep. That's why I said it was a really bad episode. The daddy issues for Vala and Landry really dragged the episode down for me.

But don't worry, the last two eps are really good.

But like we talked about earlier, I think TPTB were expecting a season 11 so it is entirely possible that they were not expecting to need a series finale at this point.

 

[tomalak301]

But like we talked about earlier, I think TPTB were expecting a season 11 so it is entirely possible that they were not expecting to need a series finale at this point.

Sure, but it’s been a few episodes since The Shroud and the closest we got to an Ori update was a Jaffa episode. It’s kind of interesting how much the cancellation screwed this show over in it’s final few episodes. I want to compare it to when Farscape was announced as cancelled but for some reason that arc flowed better. It feels like SG-1 is limping to the finale.

 

[Romulan_spy]

Sure, but it’s been a few episodes since The Shroud and the closest we got to an Ori update was a Jaffa episode. It’s kind of interesting how much the cancellation screwed this show over in it’s final few episodes. I want to compare it to when Farscape was announced as cancelled but for some reason that arc flowed better. It feels like SG-1 is limping to the finale.

Yeah, the cancellation did really mess up the end of season 10. Because of it, season 10 was not able to properly wrap up the Ori arc. So, the movie "Ark of Truth" is the real finale to the Ori arc.

 

[bigdaddy]

It feels like SG-1 is limping to the finale.

That's why I'm curious to what episode were they making when they found out they were canceled. Like if they wrapped the Ori storyline up in a TV movie anyways, why not use the finale several episodes for that? I don't get what the creators were thinking.

 

[tomalak301]

Dominion (SG-1)

It took a few episodes to reveal what happened at the end of "The Shroud", but it was worth the wait. That was a good penultimate episode. It merged a few arcs together, kinda gave an answer to what happened with the Weapon (Even if it seemed a little vague) and it actually brought the Goa'uld back into play. That was a pretty genius plan putting the Ba'al symbiote into Adria, and it took to the end of the season to hear from the Tok'ra again. I do wonder what my reaction would be if I didn't know a movie was coming though. I probably would feel like this whole thing was a wash, that nothing new was learned other than Ba'al could ascend, and that would be the end of the series. Watching this episode with the movie in mind, I am looking forward to the movie now. I do think Ba'al was telling the truth that the Ori were dead.

Other things I liked in this episode were Vala at the beginning and Sam and Daniel telling her about her memory wipe plan, Vala's reactions as the reluctant mother, and Adria actually ascending.