The Stargate Franchise - A First Timer's Watchthrough
- Thread starter tomalak301
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That's my problem with Atlantis, coulda, shoulda, woulda. They never did what made sense, just random things to hit plot points. Having a few survive to help discover parts of the city would have been amazing for the show. But nope.
That's what some of the earlier spoiler-coded discussions were about. The Dr. Weir of "New Order" who stared down the System Lords and demanded claim to Ba'al's territory once they killed him would've at least made a decent argument to the Ancients for the utility of having the expedition team around. I suppose that's why they had to fly in Woolsey, to roll over in her place. Burning off their best "living Ancients" idea (not to mention Atlantis-team-on-Earth stuff) just as a plot device to set up a second Die-Hard-style midseason two-parter is a terrible missed opportunity. Doubly so in retrospect, knowing that this was SG-1's last year. If they'd saved it for season 4, they could've done an entire arc of, say, three-to-five episodes, with the characters sent to Earth having full run of the SGC set. But as it is, it could've at least been a three-part episodes, with an entire episode-plus with the Ancient crew before the Asurans showed up, instead of disposing of them immediately.
The Quest (SG-1)
Well, that was a big two part episode. They find Merlin, start putting the pieces of the Sangraal together and Daniel is an ancient now? I really liked the idea of the oblisk transferring the team to various different planets every few hours, and the scene at the end with Daniel against Adria was great. I also liked Sam finally decking Ba'al, and the relationship between Mitchell and Vala were some of the best moments of the episode. The first part featured basically a national treasure type episode trying to find the weapon which served as great set up. I think my only negative was the Dragon looked a little lame, but I'm excited to find out what happens next now that Daniel is on the Ori ship.
Now I can't find where all the spoiler talk was so I was very curious what you guys had to say about these episodes.
Well, that was a big two part episode. They find Merlin, start putting the pieces of the Sangraal together and Daniel is an ancient now? I really liked the idea of the oblisk transferring the team to various different planets every few hours, and the scene at the end with Daniel against Adria was great. I also liked Sam finally decking Ba'al, and the relationship between Mitchell and Vala were some of the best moments of the episode. The first part featured basically a national treasure type episode trying to find the weapon which served as great set up. I think my only negative was the Dragon looked a little lame, but I'm excited to find out what happens next now that Daniel is on the Ori ship.
Now I can't find where all the spoiler talk was so I was very curious what you guys had to say about these episodes.
I can now say how much I HATE THE FUCKING DRAGON!
I FUCKING HATE THE DRAGON, HATE IT!!!! It's over 10 years later and I still hate that fucking thing. It's the worst part of season 10. If I wanted dragon bullshit I'd watch Harry Potter. This is what's wrong with Stargate, it became fantasy instead of sticking to it's sci-fi roots.
A FUCKING DRAGON!!!!
You think when Daniel went through the Stargate 10 years before he would find a fucking dragon?! Yes I know he dies.... twice... but the dragon is still the worst thing Stargate has ever done (minus Universe which no one counts).
Okay, good now I'm better. This is pretty much what we were talking about, how much we hate the dragon.
I FUCKING HATE THE DRAGON, HATE IT!!!! It's over 10 years later and I still hate that fucking thing. It's the worst part of season 10. If I wanted dragon bullshit I'd watch Harry Potter. This is what's wrong with Stargate, it became fantasy instead of sticking to it's sci-fi roots.
A FUCKING DRAGON!!!!
You think when Daniel went through the Stargate 10 years before he would find a fucking dragon?! Yes I know he dies.... twice... but the dragon is still the worst thing Stargate has ever done (minus Universe which no one counts).
Okay, good now I'm better. This is pretty much what we were talking about, how much we hate the dragon.
Hasn't Stargate always bordered on Fantasy though, especially with all this ancient stuff. To be honest, I'm starting to get a little tired of the ancient stuff. It's still decent, but this episode kind of bordered on information overload. Still a worthy 2 parter though.
No. Nah. Nope, and in Spanish... no. Ancients are aliens who became energy and left the galaxy after reseeding it.
This was A FUCKING DRAGON!!!
In case I didn't make it clear....
DRAGON!
And it was a bad looking dragon at that. While I don't watch Game Of Thrones, at least they got a CGI Dragon correct.
Line in the Sand (SG-1)
Tomin came back. That was a pleasant surprise and through him this was commentary on how religious texts can be twisted to fit the current situation. I thought his storyline was the best of this episode, and overall it was a pretty good episode. I also liked seeing the device in action, the portable ring transporter, and everything dealing with Cam and Sam, especially the ending with the Macaroons. The whole trying to convert the village to the will of the Ori is starting to get repetitive though.
It's been 10 years, even Lucifer looks different every season of the show because tech always improves. You want to know how to have a decent looking dragon? By not having one.
That village cost half a million dollars and will be used until the day Stargate dies. (Which was Universe)
The dragon... they did the best with what was technically possible at that time. It's hard to do an Arthurian legendary thing without including a dragon. I never had a problem with it.
Even SUPERNATURAL had dragons a couple times, though they went about it differently.
Even SUPERNATURAL had dragons a couple times, though they went about it differently.
IMO, that's actually the episode's weak point. While there is merit to the idea of religious texts being misinterpreted or reinterpreted to fit circumstances that has relevance to both historical events and even current events, it's not really something that's applicable to the Ori storyline since we know the Priors aren't reinterpreting relatively harmless and peaceful passages in their bible to find an excuse to kill and conquer. The Priors actually are in direct contact with the Ori themselves, who really are commanding their followers through the Priors to go out to kill and conquer. The fact the Book of Origin is apparently vaguely written and open to interpretation should be meaningless next to an actual word of god telling them to go do a deed.
I liked that plot, actually. I'm in no way religious, and frankly find the idea of religion actually does more harm than good, but the Priors are speaking to their gods. If they didn't have those powers, what's the difference between them and preachers or other people who claim gods are talking through them by using texts?
That's one of the other things the Ori storyline makes you think about. I thought it was cool to ask those questions.
That's one of the other things the Ori storyline makes you think about. I thought it was cool to ask those questions.
Yep, all the ancients were killed off screen. Yep, they were just a plot device. That was a bit disappointing to me even though I do enjoy the two parter. But having real Ancients meet our characters was such a momentous event and the show just used them as a quick plot device and cast them away. And it would have been nice if the Ancients had been a bit more appreciative of what the SGA expedition did for Atlantis. Instead the Ancients just summarily kick our crew out with barely a thank you. I agree with @DonIago that it would have been great to keep at least 1 Ancient around a a semi-regular to provide a different perspective.
It also raises a lot of questions about how exactly the invasion occurred and why Jack and Woolsey were the only survivors. Did the Ancients sacrifice themselves to preserve Our Heroes? How is it that none of the Ancients survived and there aren't even bodies anywhere? It's been awhile since I saw the events, but is there even a moment of acknowledging the tragedy that they're all gone now? I mean sure, they had a bit of an attitude, but that's no reason not to take a moment to consider their extinction.
I also hated that after the character development Nyam got in "Progeny" that here it's confirmed that whatever the Asurans did to him permanently wiped that out. I would have liked to see even a trace of the character who was willing to help Our Heroes. Somewhat like VOY, it sometimes feels like the Atlantis folks can never catch a break in terms of allies.
As for the Ori...it's an interesting point that since the Priors have a hotline to them, there shouldn't really be any debate about the "proper" interpretations of the Book of Origin. This makes me wonder whether the Book may have been written when the Ori were younger and perhaps a bit less corrupted, and whether they avoid pulling a "I know you're interpreting it as X, but what we meant was Y" because good Gods don't need to acknowledge that Their Word was anything less than perfect from the outset.
I also hated that after the character development Nyam got in "Progeny" that here it's confirmed that whatever the Asurans did to him permanently wiped that out. I would have liked to see even a trace of the character who was willing to help Our Heroes. Somewhat like VOY, it sometimes feels like the Atlantis folks can never catch a break in terms of allies.
As for the Ori...it's an interesting point that since the Priors have a hotline to them, there shouldn't really be any debate about the "proper" interpretations of the Book of Origin. This makes me wonder whether the Book may have been written when the Ori were younger and perhaps a bit less corrupted, and whether they avoid pulling a "I know you're interpreting it as X, but what we meant was Y" because good Gods don't need to acknowledge that Their Word was anything less than perfect from the outset.
But doesn't the Book of origin being vaguely written show how corrupt the Ori really are? We've seen time and again religious books, namely the bible, be used to corrupt people and that's basically what the Ori do. They preach this book but don't follow it so it's a bit of brainwashing that is happening here. Considering we know Tomin and he started out as this "good" person, to have him realize how much he had been brainwashed after looking at the book himself, I just thought it was incredibly effective.
There was a mention that the ancients had been killed but it was quickly swept under the rug. Looking back on the episodes, I really wish they had done more with the ancient story because it really did feel incomplete.
I thought it was established in "The Fourth Horseman" that the Priors don't have a direct link to the Ori. The Prior in the "The Fourth Horseman" certainly believed that he would ascend so he did not know that was a lie. It's only the Doci and Adria who know the whole truth about the Ori.
that the whole point of the movie "Ark of Truth. The Priors are brainwashed. It's only when the Ark of Truth is opened and it reveals the truth that the Priors are set free from the Ori brainwashing.
But I do agree with you about the Book of Origin. I could be wrong but I get the impression that the Book of Origin may have been written a long time ago, when the Alterans still lived in their home galaxy before leaving for the Milky Way, so before the Ori ascended. That would explain how the religion got corrupted. It started when the Ori were still corporeal. The religion started as a book of good morals but when the Ori ascended and learned that they could feed off the worship of lower beings to become more powerful, they got power hungry and a huge superiority complex as gods and so they usurped the religion for their purposes.
The Priors spread the word of the Ori. The Doci and Adria have a direct link to them. In a sense the Priors are almost like the Vorta in DS9, only a little more violent.
I still found the episode harped a bit too much on what should in-universe be a non-issue. The conversation between Tomin and the Prior really shouldn't have been much of a debate. Tomin tries to argue his relatively harmless interpretation about the story about the titular line in the sand, the Prior should have been able to shoot him down with the fact that the Ori are directly commanding him what to do, with no room for interpretation.
Adria is herself an Ori having taken human form, so by virtue of her interacting with the other Priors, they have a "direct line" to the Ori through her. Just recently in The Quest story Adria commanded an entire village burned because they refused to convert, which leaves little doubt about the Ori's true intentions.
It has been a long time since I saw "THE RETURN" two-parter, but maybe the reason Jack and Woolsey didn't get killed with the Ancients was because their genetic code was just different enough to be immune.
And regarding the Ancients on why they don't deal with the Ori directly, I have a theory about that. But I need to wait until THE ARK OF TRUTH is viewed, because some of what I say might be a little spoilerish.
And regarding the Ancients on why they don't deal with the Ori directly, I have a theory about that. But I need to wait until THE ARK OF TRUTH is viewed, because some of what I say might be a little spoilerish.
Can you put it in a spoiler? I would be curious to hear your theory. Thanks.
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