The Stargate Franchise - A First Timer's Watchthrough

[Farscape One]

Okay, my theory.

Spoiler: Ancient Theory...

I think the Ancients actually were not powerful enough to take on the Ori.

The Ori had an entire galaxy of followers worshipping them, and therefore gaining more power all the time. The Ancients didn't have a lot of followers, and even the ones that did, didn't worship them quite like how Ori worshippers did.

As a comparison, a 5th season SUPERNATURAL episode called "HAMMER OF THE GODS". Lucifer, the archangel, completely shredded a LOT of pagan gods, but the only god who was able to put up a fight, or even survived, was Kali. Kali still had a lot of worshippers due to so many people following Hindu, which I believe is right behind Christianity in terms of how many people practice it. The other gods had no chance because so few people follow them.

I think this is a direct parallel to the Ori and Ancients... the Ori is Lucifer, and the Ancients are the pagan gods.

 

[David cgc]

Interesting.

Spoiler

It fits with a lot of stuff. It's pretty much explicit that Morgan Le Fey can only take on Adria once she loses her followers. And Oma and Anubis were equally matched, but all of Anubis's Jaffa were killed when he attacked Earth, and his slaves and holdings were seized by Ba'al, so all he had left were the Kull Warriors, which had no thought or will, which helps account for why Oma never tried to hold him back directly until that moment. If, most of the time,s she couldn't beat him anyway, it'd be a lot easier to think she was doing more good by helping people like Daniel and not-Prax.

 

[Romulan_spy]

Okay, my theory.

Spoiler: Ancient Theory...

I think the Ancients actually were not powerful enough to take on the Ori.

The Ori had an entire galaxy of followers worshipping them, and therefore gaining more power all the time. The Ancients didn't have a lot of followers, and even the ones that did, didn't worship them quite like how Ori worshippers did.

As a comparison, a 5th season SUPERNATURAL episode called "HAMMER OF THE GODS". Lucifer, the archangel, completely shredded a LOT of pagan gods, but the only god who was able to put up a fight, or even survived, was Kali. Kali still had a lot of worshippers due to so many people following Hindu, which I believe is right behind Christianity in terms of how many people practice it. The other gods had no chance because so few people follow them.

I think this is a direct parallel to the Ori and Ancients... the Ori is Lucifer, and the Ancients are the pagan gods.

Spoiler

Thanks. That's an interesting theory. I think you are on to something. Certainly, the Ori seem like they were very focused on getting power and had perfected getting power from worship. The Ancients don't seem interested in that sort of power. In fact, they have a strict rule of non-interference to prevent the temptation of trying to gain power through worship. So considering that the Ori were focused on power and the Ancients were not, it is entirely possible that the Ori were more powerful than the Ancients.

But it begs the question: why did the Ori not destroy the Ancients if they were already more powerful? The show does tell us that the Ori needed worshipers in our galaxy in order to gain enough power to take on the Ancients which would seem to imply that the Ori were not powerful enough in our galaxy. So I have an idea. Perhaps the worship is local. So the power from the worshipers only works in the same galaxy that the worshipers are in. It would explain both why the Ancients never destroyed the Ori and it would also explain why the Ori needed worshipers in our galaxy. The Ancients could not invade the Ori galaxy because the Ori would have home field advantage of all that worship giving them power. And the Ori could not simply invade our galaxy because they would lose the power from their worshipers. So the Ori needed worshipers in our galaxy in order to empower them in our galaxy. I think that works.

 

[Romulan_spy]

Interesting.

Spoiler

It fits with a lot of stuff. It's pretty much explicit that Morgan Le Fey can only take on Adria once she loses her followers. And Oma and Anubis were equally matched, but all of Anubis's Jaffa were killed when he attacked Earth, and his slaves and holdings were seized by Ba'al, so all he had left were the Kull Warriors, which had no thought or will, which helps account for why Oma never tried to hold him back directly until that moment. If, most of the time,s she couldn't beat him anyway, it'd be a lot easier to think she was doing more good by helping people like Daniel and not-Prax.

Spoiler

I think that fits my theory as well that the worship is local. So since they were in the Ori galaxy, Adria would have had the home field advantage of all that worship that would have made her more powerful than Morgan.

 

[Farscape One]

Good refinement on my theory, and it does seem to fit every piece well.

 

[tomalak301]

From here on out both series are pretty much on their own in terms of story right? I ask because I’ve had a personal rule that I would watch at least one of each series a night but I am close to finishing SG-1. What I’m thinking is going harder on SG-1 to finish the series while still catching an episode of Atlantis each night to keep me reminded of what is going on with that story and then it will be all Atlantis after Ark of Truth. I’m only 8 episodes away from SG-1’s finish and that will happen this weekend. Also the Gateworld viewing guide said I could see Ark of Truth even if I had not finished Atlantis season 3 yet.

 

[Romulan_spy]

From here on out both series are pretty much on their own in terms of story right? I ask because I’ve had a personal rule that I would watch at least one of each series a night but I am close to finishing SG-1. What I’m thinking is going harder on SG-1 to finish the series while still catching an episode of Atlantis each night to keep me reminded of what is going on with that story and then it will be all Atlantis after Ark of Truth. I’m only 8 episodes away from SG-1’s finish and that will happen this weekend. Also the Gateworld viewing guide said I could see Ark of Truth even if I had not finished Atlantis season 3 yet.

Yeah, I think so. If I am not mistaken, SGA season 4 starts after the end of SG1. I would recommend watching "Ark of Truth" immediately after the SG1 finale since the movie wraps up loose ends.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Interesting.

Spoiler

It fits with a lot of stuff. It's pretty much explicit that Morgan Le Fey can only take on Adria once she loses her followers. And Oma and Anubis were equally matched, but all of Anubis's Jaffa were killed when he attacked Earth, and his slaves and holdings were seized by Ba'al, so all he had left were the Kull Warriors, which had no thought or will, which helps account for why Oma never tried to hold him back directly until that moment. If, most of the time,s she couldn't beat him anyway, it'd be a lot easier to think she was doing more good by helping people like Daniel and not-Prax.

Spoiler

I thought it was because Anubis was following the set of rules he was given so they were forbidden from interfering no matter what the consequences. He was allowed to do anything he could have done as a gu'ald. That's why he was allowed to possess people, gu'ald can do that.

 

[David cgc]

From here on out both series are pretty much on their own in terms of story right? I ask because I’ve had a personal rule that I would watch at least one of each series a night but I am close to finishing SG-1. What I’m thinking is going harder on SG-1 to finish the series while still catching an episode of Atlantis each night to keep me reminded of what is going on with that story and then it will be all Atlantis after Ark of Truth. I’m only 8 episodes away from SG-1’s finish and that will happen this weekend. Also the Gateworld viewing guide said I could see Ark of Truth even if I had not finished Atlantis season 3 yet.

"Ark of Truth" takes place immediately after "Unending," which takes place at some point before the Atlantis season 3 finale, so you're clear to just power through SG-1 and then jump on to Atlantis. The other SG-1 movie, "Continuum," takes place early in Atlantis season 5. You'll know when, because someone says in the episode that it's about to happen.

"Continuum's" explicit placement by Atlantis is just chronological bookkeeping, though, you don't need to wait to understand what's going on if you'd rather finish off SG-1 altogether now (though I think saving it as a little reunion treat would be a good idea). Indeed, "Continuum" was originally written as taking place immediately after "The Ark of Truth," but that reference was removed in editing (which I agree with, I like SG-1 having some off-screen breathing room for their imaginary season 11).

Spoiler

I thought it was because Anubis was following the set of rules he was given so they were forbidden from interfering no matter what the consequences. He was allowed to do anything he could have done as a gu'ald. That's why he was allowed to possess people, gu'ald can do that.

Right, but there's no reason given (other than what I speculated on) for why Oma didn't do what she did in "Threads" years earlier, beyond the vague implication that it was unthinkable.

 

[tomalak301]

The Road Not Taken (SG-1)

There was an interesting story here but the episode kinda just stopped. Samantha gets transported to a parallel universe where Hammond is still in control of SG-1 and Landry is the president. Sam helps the world fend off the Ori attack but slowly starts to see how civil liberties were taken away in the interest of national security. Sam says something about it during an interview (since the world shaving she's become a global hero) and then after a very interesting conversation of democracy and freedoms and how on our universe our gate program is still being kept secret, the episode ran out of time and Sam was back in her own universe using the same method that was used by McKay in McKay and Mrs. Miller. I think this episode would have been better served as a two part episode, but they are pretty much out of time now, and this is the second episode in a row we have no idea what is happened to Daniel. It was ok, but the ending was really rushed.

 

[David cgc]

Michael Shanks was on paternity leave, which is why Daniel spends a chunk of the last season MIA.

 

[The Wormhole]

While it certainly was interesting to see a reality where the Stargate was made public and seeing how that folds into a mainstream world, The Road Not Taken is arguably a very dated episode today. Largely commentary on Dubya Bush era politics, which truth be told don't seem as bad as the politics under the current White House Administration. But perhaps that's better suited to a whole other thread in a whole other forum.

 

[tomalak301]

The Shroud (SG-1)

Well, more questions was raised in that episode than answered. They completed the weapon, sent the ship with Adria on board through the supergate, and now like 7 Ori ships have come through the gate. Not sure if the weapon worked or what happened, but that was a very ominous way to end this episode. We now know what Daniel has been up to, getting Adria to trust him, he is made prior, and he still has some of the knowledge from Merlin to make his plan work. Also always enjoy seeing Jack, and he was up to his usual Jack self. I'm thinking once I'm done with the series, that will be when I determine if this episode was good or not. Now, like I said, it just brings on more questions and more doom.

 

[David cgc]

While it certainly was interesting to see a reality where the Stargate was made public and seeing how that folds into a mainstream world, The Road Not Taken is arguably a very dated episode today. Largely commentary on Dubya Bush era politics, which truth be told don't seem as bad as the politics under the current White House Administration. But perhaps that's better suited to a whole other thread in a whole other forum.

Just this morning I was writing a reply on the Stargate subreddit and was talking about "the Department of Homeworld Security" and kept thinking "Remember when that name was a joke? That was so weird."

(I just realized r/Stargate might be the only place on the internet where someone might realize the source of my other, semi-anonymous username. No one has, yet, but it gives me hope.)

(Also, apparently, I don't remember when the name was a joke, either, because I almost submitted this post calling it "Homeworld Command," the non-joke name they eventually landed on.)

 

[bigdaddy]

Largely commentary on Dubya Bush era politics, which truth be told don't seem as bad as the politics under the current White House Administration. .

Don't you dare go down that gaslighting bullshit. He's a war criminal, he's a piece of shit. I don't care what dumbfuckers like Ellen think of him.

The episode was dated when it aired. It just wasn't well handled. Good idea for an episode, just too much.

 

[Romulan_spy]

The Shroud (SG-1)

Well, more questions was raised in that episode than answered. They completed the weapon, sent the ship with Adria on board through the supergate, and now like 7 Ori ships have come through the gate. Not sure if the weapon worked or what happened, but that was a very ominous way to end this episode. We now know what Daniel has been up to, getting Adria to trust him, he is made prior, and he still has some of the knowledge from Merlin to make his plan work. Also always enjoy seeing Jack, and he was up to his usual Jack self. I'm thinking once I'm done with the series, that will be when I determine if this episode was good or not. Now, like I said, it just brings on more questions and more doom.

I will say that "Dominion" will answer some questions from "The Shroud" but leaves other questions still unanswered. However, "Ark of Truth" does wrap up the Ori arc completely.

 

[DonIago]

I have mixed feelings about "The Shroud", especially the ending, but those mixed feelings aren't really specific to the episode itself.

 

[tomalak301]

Echoes (SG: A)

My one obligatory Atlantis episode for the evening, and it wasn't bad. It was one about Whales, echoes, seeing visions of ancients and burned pilots, and using the Daedelus as a shield for a Sun about to having a really really long solar flare. Rodney can really talk too fast, I find it romantic that he named a whale after Samantha Carter, and I was hoping Teyla would have been used more than she was. She and Ronon have a pretty interesting bond though.

By the way, if we can keep today's politics to a near minimum, that would be great.

Bounty (SG-1)

I hope this is the end of the Lucian Alliance. Series is almost over and if I don't see them again, I'm fine with that. The bounty plot I could take or leave. I actually enjoyed Vala's interactions with Cam's parents and friends more. She is hilarious. I loved how she got everyone to believe that she and Cam were dating.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

"Ark of Truth" takes place immediately after "Unending," which takes place at some point before the Atlantis season 3 finale, so you're clear to just power through SG-1 and then jump on to Atlantis. The other SG-1 movie, "Continuum," takes place early in Atlantis season 5. You'll know when, because someone says in the episode that it's about to happen.

"Continuum's" explicit placement by Atlantis is just chronological bookkeeping, though, you don't need to wait to understand what's going on if you'd rather finish off SG-1 altogether now (though I think saving it as a little reunion treat would be a good idea). Indeed, "Continuum" was originally written as taking place immediately after "The Ark of Truth," but that reference was removed in editing (which I agree with, I like SG-1 having some off-screen breathing room for their imaginary season 11).



Right, but there's no reason given (other than what I speculated on) for why Oma didn't do what she did in "Threads" years earlier, beyond the vague implication that it was unthinkable.

I think Anubis had just not gone as far as that yet.

 

[tomalak301]

Bad Guys

I think SG-1 is starting to feel a little tired. The team walks through the gate, gets misidentified as rebels to the society, and hijinks ensue. Only thing is watching this episode I keep thinking there are only 4 episodes left and we still don't know what the Ori Fleet is up to. This storyline is basically insignificant because the world ended up covering up these events and buried the gate. Maybe it's just Season 10 and it feels like the end of a very long book, but I do think Season 10 might have started the series overstaying it's welcome. I did like SG-1, especially Jackson, acting bad, but the woman screaming was annoying as hell.