Holy shit, did Chabon see my Trek Imponderables videos on YouTube?
Holy shit, did Una McCormack see my supernova destruction radius graphic (which was 14 light years but close enough)?
The Romulan Supernova: The final, canon word
- Thread starter F. King Daniel
- Start date
Perhaps she saw the graphic used in STO?
As regards what Spock hoped to achieve, the one thing he never explicitly confesses to is being "late". To the contrary, he speaks of having "time", even if "little" of it. Him going out on a high note might be one dramatic path to take - but him succeeding in something that falls short of audience expectations would be equally dramatically valid, just like Kirk dying while standing on the bridge... of a madman's ramshackle doomsday outfit, on a planet at the hind end of nowhere, while sharing credit for saving just one alien world.
Certainly Spock appears devastated and defeated, perhaps also guilt-ridden, when first bowing to Nero. But we get no hotline to his thoughts at that specific point, so we don't learn when he gave up hope of keeping his promise.
Timo Saloniemi
As regards what Spock hoped to achieve, the one thing he never explicitly confesses to is being "late". To the contrary, he speaks of having "time", even if "little" of it. Him going out on a high note might be one dramatic path to take - but him succeeding in something that falls short of audience expectations would be equally dramatically valid, just like Kirk dying while standing on the bridge... of a madman's ramshackle doomsday outfit, on a planet at the hind end of nowhere, while sharing credit for saving just one alien world.
Certainly Spock appears devastated and defeated, perhaps also guilt-ridden, when first bowing to Nero. But we get no hotline to his thoughts at that specific point, so we don't learn when he gave up hope of keeping his promise.
Timo Saloniemi
So even nearby stars appear as points. Spock was too late to save Romulus but perhaps he black holed a part of the supernova wave specifically aimed at a neighboring world. Couldn’t stop all of it but perhaps a narrow arc in a specific direction. Want to piss Nero off? Do it towards Earth or Kronos.
Or the nova was going to have multiple “belches” and the first hit Romulus (the unthinkable event) but the main blow up was to be a bit later, so he stopped that. Hard to think the Jellyfish or the Narada would survive near the actual supernova.
Or the nova was going to have multiple “belches” and the first hit Romulus (the unthinkable event) but the main blow up was to be a bit later, so he stopped that. Hard to think the Jellyfish or the Narada would survive near the actual supernova.
G
Gonzo
Guest
That can pretty much be applied to almost every thread on this forum, it seems to happen in nearly every thread for the most trivial of issues, I think some are just spoiling for a fight, interesting to note it always seems to be the same offenders who end up having to be warned or given a timeout.
It would be rather boring for you if it was otherwise though.
I do not mind having a discussion every now and then but nine times out of ten it just degenerates into handbags at dawn.
Although it must be said that there are some members that I have had civil discussions with but someone (one of the usual suspects) always jumps in and has a meltdown, then tries to take over the entire thread because something has been said that they cant handle in an attempt to shut down the conversation.
All they have to do is scroll past it if they cant handle it, I only frequent a few small areas of this forum so I can only imagine how much worse it actually is for you and the rest of the mods, fair play to you for your restraint in spite of extreme provocation.
G
Gonzo
Guest
It was indicated at the time that there was plenty of time for Spock to act and then all of a sudden there was no time left at all.
Indicating that someone or something sped up the process even further to ensure Spock would fail.
The natural assumption would be that the kaboom could not be predicted down to the minute - except perhaps during the final hour. So Spock relying on a high speed fire truck launched from a great distance seems extremely odd, when he could instead have built a fire station right on the spot, years before the actual emergency! We never learn what the speed of the Jellyfish would have been good for. I mean, it didn't even turn the ship into a valid getaway vehicle: Nero caught up with him, while driving a lumbering mining rig!
Spock being late should come as no surprise to him. Then again, he confesses to neither surprise nor being late.
Timo Saloniemi
Spock being late should come as no surprise to him. Then again, he confesses to neither surprise nor being late.
Timo Saloniemi
Welcome to Star Trek?
Spock was working under whatever assumption was that saved Romulus. In both Star Trek (2009) and Picard, he clearly failed. While the failure drives both stories, I don't think the details are honestly all that important. Romulus ended up doomed.
I don't know why you keep bringing up your physics degree? Physics and real science, and Star Trek have never had much in common.
And that's the important part of the story is the character drive. It matters more to me what the characters thing, feel and believe than what the details of tech are.
At this point, I feel like the Romulan Supernova, as much as I love ST 09, was a mistake because people constantly ignore the character moments in that film to try and figure out the supernova.
I think I've said it in some other threads... we can't really take the visual depiction of events in Prime Spock's mind meld scene at face value. It was, no doubt, a stylized and condensed version of events. And it happens in a movie where you can see Vulcan being destroyed in graphic close-up view all the way from a planet that has no business being that close.
Kor
Kor
Pretty much this. Picard tried to do something and failed. Spock tried to do something too and also failed. The End.
I haven't seen the 2009 film in 10 years. So I'm fuzzy on the details. What's happened in Picard sounds similar enough to me.
Honestly, it does not seem to me that the supernova is portrayed differently fr Picard. In Prime-Spock's flashback with Kelvin-Kirk, his mind's eye passes from an apparently Earth-like planet, past an asteroid belt, to a star just as it explodes. Prime-Spock later cuts back to that planet as he says that he failed to save Romulus, and we see that planet get shattered.
That sequence fits the idea of the supernova occurring within the Romulan system. The big problem with that idea has always been the idea that the Romulans would not know their homeworld's sun was on the verge of a supernova. If we are able to determine that Betelgeuse is doing odd things, and if (most notably) our neutrino telescopes would give us advance warning of the explosion of a nearby star, this is implausible.
Picard solves this, to the extent that it can, by having the fatal instability of the Romulan star be known a half-dozen years in advance. Whatever the cause—I would not be surprised, as I said elsewhere, if it turns out someone triggered the eventual supernova—this does mean that outside observers do know about this likely as soon as this fact could be known. This means that the assumption made by the 2009-era comics and STO that the supernova was a surprise no longer needs to be made.
...And really, we shouldn't sweat "real supernova physics" much. Not merely because out of the handful of Trek supernovas, only one has been of a "realistic" red giant ("Tin Man") - but because we really don't know much about supernovas in the real world.
Sure, we have a working model to explain why those stars that do go kaboom do so. But there hasn't been a supernova in the Milky Way in recent history - the last one blew when there were no telescopes and precious few people interested in writing down things as they actually happened. For all we know (that is, we don't!), there are at least a dozen ways a star can blow, and all of them are collectively known as supernova by those better-informed Trek folks (and will be known as such by us in our reality when we get that far in our quest for knowledge).
Timo Saloniemi
Sure, we have a working model to explain why those stars that do go kaboom do so. But there hasn't been a supernova in the Milky Way in recent history - the last one blew when there were no telescopes and precious few people interested in writing down things as they actually happened. For all we know (that is, we don't!), there are at least a dozen ways a star can blow, and all of them are collectively known as supernova by those better-informed Trek folks (and will be known as such by us in our reality when we get that far in our quest for knowledge).
Timo Saloniemi
Disagree. In this universe,a G star is not going to become a supernova. Most likely a White Dwarf.
As fans of German fun punk know, it was never a supernova that destroyed Romulus, it were soundwaves. And that's my canon since 1997. The Federation might THINK it was a supernova though
Vulcan skies are like Klingon looks: the change is not a bug but a feature. Loving the attention to detail, no matter how weird, in DSC.
Also, Michael's flight through the bushes on her way to the desert probably involves the very shrubbery seen in the TAS image...
How this relates to the supernova thing is unclear. Nothing about Spock's meld visuals need be taken as counterfactual, even if some of it is shot through weird lenses. Whether the narrative is linear or not is debatable; we now know that "a star will explode" actually belongs a bit later in that narrative even if Spock uses it as an introductory phrase, but the rest has not been nailed down yet.
Timo Saloniemi
Also, Michael's flight through the bushes on her way to the desert probably involves the very shrubbery seen in the TAS image...
How this relates to the supernova thing is unclear. Nothing about Spock's meld visuals need be taken as counterfactual, even if some of it is shot through weird lenses. Whether the narrative is linear or not is debatable; we now know that "a star will explode" actually belongs a bit later in that narrative even if Spock uses it as an introductory phrase, but the rest has not been nailed down yet.
Timo Saloniemi
In any case, there have been hints in The Last Best Hope that the supernova was inexplicable, a surprise that might be most parsimoniously explained by someone making the star supernova. We have seen examples of different artificially triggered supernovas of apparently stable stars, including the Dominion attempt at Bajor, so it is something imaginable.
Holy shit, did Chabon see my Trek Imponderables videos on YouTube?
Holy shit, did Una McCormack see my supernova destruction radius graphic (which was 14 light years but close enough)?
Of course they've seen it. You're a paid CBS shill!
