The Romulan Supernova: The final, canon word

[Yistaan]

It doesn't change intent, no matter what
Chabon says

Does it matter now? We've all laid out our arguments (Spock was saving Romulus via magical technobabble vs Spock was stalling for time to preserve realism). It now depends on whether the show will address it further to clarify a side or just ignore it entirely in favor of the current story with Picard.

This all started because I told Chabon about it, he actually responded, and I talked about it in the Chabon thread.

 

[thribs]

The novel says the nova causes disruption in a 10 lightyear radius. While that’s big it’s still a small percentage of the Romulan Star Empire so it wouldn’t be that much of a big deal.

 

[rfmcdpei]

Nice you ignore my exact words repeated multiple times. I myself saw Nimoy in 2006 in person and he was a big influence in my life.

We're done here. You want to repeat false personal comments, you know what the next button I'll click is.

No one here, I think, has any interest in mocking either Nimoy or Spock. I do not know who here could be said to be doing that.

 

[fireproof78]

Does it matter now? We've all laid out our arguments (Spock was saving Romulus via magical technobabble vs Spock was stalling for time to preserve realism). It now depends on whether the show will address it further to clarify a side or just ignore it entirely in favor of the current story with Picard.

This all started because I told Chabon about it, he actually responded, and I talked about it in the Chabon thread.

Yes, but no one disparage Nimoy or his legacy. With due respect, there was a lot more hostility and angst over this topic than was needed. Nothing that Chabon, Picard or any other medium takes away from ST 09, Nimoy's intent in the scenes he did or whatnot. So, whatever opinions of the stories we have, they should not be assumed to be a reflection on Nimoy, or any other member of the production team.

That said, I don't have an issue with either one. Spock may well be trying to stall for time to save all of the Romulans, rather than just a select few. We simply don't have all the facts. We have very limited, in universe, points of view (Spock, Nero, Picard) that do not give us every detail. Each POV is biased by their own emotions. So, we are jumping to vast conclusions without all the information.

 

[Yistaan]

No one here, I think, has any interest in mocking either Nimoy or Spock. I do not know who here could be said to be doing that.

I never said anyone was mocking but it alters his scenes intent. In any case i emphasized nimoy to repeat my reasoning on a poster making false accusations.

So it came out more strongly as a result but i never said anyone was intentionally mocking him

angst over this topic than was needed.

Yep, I did feel angst when a poster made false accusations about my post motivations (irrational attachment to a game I hardly play). You're right in that he shouldn't have been debated with further but instead given the actions appropriate to those who make personal comments, and those actions have now been taken.

 

[fireproof78]

I never said anyone was mocking but it alters his scenes intent. In any case i emphasized nimoy to repeat my reasoning on a poster making false accusations.

So it came out more strongly as a result but i never said anyone was intentionally mocking him

But, you're the only one bringing up Nimoy...??? It's a non sequitur at best.

 

[Yistaan]

But, you're the only one bringing up Nimoy...??? It's a non sequitur at best.

Are you trying to attribute false reasoning to my posts now too? I said it's messing with the nature of his scenes, I never said anything about intentionally being done. In any case, did you really not get the hint when I said

Does it matter now? We've all laid out our arguments

 

[The Old Mixer]

you're so full of yourself

Easy there...

 

[The Old Mixer]

Are you trying to attribute false reasoning to my posts now too?

As for you, you might just wanna take a break from this.

 

[Yistaan]

As for you, you might just wanna take a break from this.

Yeah thanks I will.

 

[fireproof78]

I said it's messing with the nature of his scenes,

And, I disagree. And I'll leave it at that, since this is clearly touching on a raw nerve for reasons that escape me.

 

[The Old Mixer]

The thing that strikes me about the supernova controversy is that what Picard has established thus far makes perfect sense for the show's own purposes. What they're not trying to make sense of or even getting into is whatever the hell Spock was trying to do in the film. The same film that gave us "I can see Vulcan from my house".

It doesn't seem worth getting worked up about what Spock's plan says about Spock's character based on pure speculation about what Spock's plan might have been in the first place.

 

[fireproof78]

The thing that strikes me about the supernova controversy is that what Picard has established thus far makes perfect sense for the show's own purposes. What they're not trying to make sense of or even getting into is whatever the hell Spock was trying to do in the film. The same film that gave us "I can see Vulcan from my house".

It doesn't seem worth getting worked up about what Spock's plan says about Spock's character based on pure speculation about what Spock's plan might have been in the first place.

I tend to agree. As much as I love Spock he isn't all-knowing and would have to operate with limited information. If he heard the operation was scrapped then he might have engaged in "cowboy diplomacy" in taking matters in to his own hands to solve the problem.

 

[valkyrie013]

Well.. Spock was late, but didn't he set off the red matter and create a black hole anyways? So.. Why do that? Can't effect the radiation burst afterwards..
So why create a black hole? there's no reason to. THe genie is litteraly out of the bottle.. Can't stop the Gamma burst from affecting surronding systems, but you have years to evacuate or prepare. and if the Narada showed up.. Spock was in the Jellyfish.. supposidly fastest ship they had.. so Spock just had to say.. sorry, better luck next time.. then skedaddle out of there..
and Nero is shown to be the complete douche canoe.. he had as ship.. a big one.. and he didn't participate in the rescue effort or have his wife and daughter with him??
Just throws the whole thing in to a mess.. and i doubt Picard will cover it in season 1.. a gloss over on one of the biggest things that happened.. egh.. supernova boom.. next.. ugh..

 

[Nerys Myk]

Nero is shown to be the complete douche canoe.. he had as ship.. a big one.. and he didn't participate in the rescue effort or have his wife and daughter with him??

I assume he was out mining and couldn't get back in time. Why would his wife and child be on his ship?

 

[rfmcdpei]

I never said anyone was mocking but it alters his scenes intent. In any case i emphasized nimoy to repeat my reasoning on a poster making false accusations.

So it came out more strongly as a result but i never said anyone was intentionally mocking him

False accusations? Of what?

It does not alter the intent one whit to suggest that Spock's plan was to collapse the Romulan sun, thus preventing a regionally devastating supernova and even giving some time to do something for Romulans still on Romulus.

Yep, I did feel angst when a poster made false accusations about my post motivations (irrational attachment to a game I hardly play). You're right in that he shouldn't have been debated with further but instead given the actions appropriate to those who make personal comments, and those actions have now been taken.

My personal feeling is that STO is no more or less relevant to the television shows than the pre-Picard novelverse is. Now that we are getting novels like The Last Best Hope, written under the direct supervision of the responsibles and (as I have seen so far) fairly reflecting the content of the TV, what these have to say have to be more relevant than what other licensed products describing different Trek universes could be made to say about this one.

 

[fireproof78]

I assume he was out mining and couldn't get back in time. Why would his wife and child be on his ship?

He would also likely be still at the mercy of the Romulan government. So, they direct him and he goes.

 

[Yistaan]

False accusations? Of what?

Took a break as the mod suggested. That break's over, and you have sincere questions so I'll answer. But to be honest I don't really have anything more to say that I haven't already said.

It was in reference to the poster who made personal accusations about irrational attachments to a game, and outright unleashed personal attacks such as "you're so full of yourself" which you can see on this very page.

Also, I have worked with Professors Perlmutter and Smoot while I got my Engineering Physics degree at UC Berkeley (I was class of 2005, so this is before they won their Nobel Prizes). Most of what I say is just due to years long Physics training, including with supernovae (look up Perlmutter and his research), now admittedly only partially remembered (this was over 15 years ago), and my own continuity nerd desire to see works like the 2009 film's intent be preserved as closely as possible. @valkyrie013 made good points that with a natural supernova, Spock may have no reason to create a black hole anymore as the radiation already was released past the event horizon of any black hole he'd create.

Not much else to say on this topic. To be honest after the personal attacks I've had to endure (the quote on this page for example), I'm not really in a mood to discuss things further and I'm rather horrified those haven't been more forcefully called out upon. As such, I'd rather not have any questions asked of me on this topic unless someone finds it really pressing for some reason.

 

[BorgTheory]

I simply ignore the fake Trek Kelvin movies as fake canon and suddenly everything is perfectly clear .

 

[Tarek71]

They've obviously retconned it. I think there was a writers strike during the crucial time ST:09 was made and so revisions to the script could not be made. It may be that they would have changed some of this back then. Ie, it is not a supernova that "threatens the Galaxy", and maybe changed it to make it clear that it was the star Romulus orbits that goes nova, so the red matter would still have left a lifeless Romulus.

Thus, stalling would make sense, since once it is used the Romulan star is destroyed along with all life on the planet. So the revised version of the plan was maybe to collapse it as late as possible to get as many off world as they could, but they waited too long, and it blew unexpectedly quickly toward the end.

Not sure. It still doesnt make alot of sense. They should have just said that someone fires a Trilithium warhead into Romulan star, only minutes exist to save everyone, and just forget the whole stupid red matter thing to begin with. Then some nutty Romulan tries to go back in time to change, Spock follows to stop him, etc, etc. IDK. It was a dumb script from the word go. Not easy to rescue it from it's own idiocy.

We thrashed thru alot of the stupidity of this thing in 09. Not worth getting to bent out of shape about it or the latest retcon. It's their F up, not ours.