THE ORVILLE: S1, E7: "MAJORITY RULE"

[RJDiogenes]

Tilly is fingernails-on-blackboard annoying. Everybody else is just bland or unpleasant-- although the new, groovy Stamets was kind of a hoot (not enough to prevent me from cancelling my subscription, though).

 

[theenglish]

Actually Elara paired with the dumb guy might have a better effect than with Ed, he strikes me as someone who wouldn't be phased by her strength anyway. Ed hasn't gotten over his prior relationship issues yet, so even if he could deal with her strength he'd drive her crazy with that.

Elara and Ed is just a creepy dynamic. She may be strong but he is the Captain and much older. The days of the Captain and the Ensign are long behind us, unless the show wanted to do a TOS throwback thing.

 

[The Wormhole]

near as I can tell all of Discovery's characters are fairly unlikable or meh with the possible exception of Tilly

Stamets is slowly getting into Tilly territory in terms of likeable characters though.

I like Stamets, even in the earlier episodes when he was acting like a jerk before the spores mellowed him out. It has more to do with the actor than the writing, there's just something indescribable about his performance that actually makes him feel like a real person. His relationship with Dr. Culber is probably one of the better romances I've seen depicted on Star Trek.

 

[tomalak301]

I like Stamets, even in the earlier episodes when he was acting like a jerk before the spores mellowed him out. It has more to do with the actor than the writing, there's just something indescribable about his performance that actually makes him feel like a real person. His relationship with Dr. Culber is probably one of the better romances I've seen depicted on Star Trek.

I wish we saw more of that relationship. I think we’ve only gotten two scenes worth.

 

[JD]

Because it's an interesting place where society is very different than the rest of the world. Because it's so isolated from the rest of the world. Because seeing things first hand is better than reading or hearing someone's opinion of them. Because it's very difficult to go there legally and you take the chance when you get it.
In my undergraduate days I took the opportunity to visit Poland for 6 weeks. This is when it was a communist country, albeit one with a lot of anti-communist citizens. It was a much more fulfilling experience than going to Cape Cod for the summer.

Sorry it took me so long to respond, I lost track of the thread.
I've seen a fair amount of stuff about NK, including watching Lisa Ling's special and reading her book, and a couple other documentaries, and everything I've seen about the place is fucking terrifying. The whole culture has been so completely taken over by the regime that there's really nothing there to even find interesting culturally or historically. At least not interesting enough that I'd risk death and/or potentially a lifetime of imprisonment and torture to see.

 

[BillJ]

I like Stamets, even in the earlier episodes when he was acting like a jerk before the spores mellowed him out. It has more to do with the actor than the writing, there's just something indescribable about his performance that actually makes him feel like a real person. His relationship with Dr. Culber is probably one of the better romances I've seen depicted on Star Trek.

That speaks to the acting talents of Anthony Rapp. Someone I had never heard of prior to Discovery.

 

[shivkala]

This was just a joking reference to Star Trek.

On Trek, I always took references to a paycheck to be just an expression leftover from a previous era. We still have a lot of those today. The proof is in the pudding. On DS9, it seemed like officers stationed in places where currency is still used get some kind of stipend to allow them to be more comfortable.

Unless the creators explicitly state it, I'm not buying the "it's just a joking reference to Star Trek" excuse. It's too pat and convenient.

You can do stories that copy Star Trek stories without it seeming derivative. Stargate did it all the time but it always felt like its own thing. Orville does it in a way so stylistically close to the original it never feels like its own thing.

At least past season 1, Stargate SG-1 did it with a wink and a nod to Star Trek, even specifically name-checking Trek from time to time. That's one of the reasons I loved it, they embraced that they weren't the first to do these plots and either called themselves out on it or had interesting twists on it. For instance, "Window of Opportunity" embraced the humor in being able to repeat time over and over again (something I think "Magic to Make the Sanest Man Go Mad" played with a little) and, to my knowledge, it was the first time-loop episode to go that route, instead of a "by-the-numbers" pastiche of "Cause and Effect."

Orville is a big Star Trek shaped member berry. Making you 'member is nice for a while but it only goes so far.

Ahhh Orville has successfully tapped into that aforementioned Trek-without-consequences vein they were aiming for. Sloppy as hell, but as long as it's similar enough to Trek without actually being it, anything goes.

TNG did episodes like this fairly well, I'd say, but that's neither here nor there. Like I said, I like the show, but this was a sloppy mess if you turn your brain on.

There's only so far nostalgia can take you.

It has nothing to do with consequences and everything to do with likable characters, at least for me. If the Discovery characters were as fun as this group, I'd like it a heck of a lot better.

Sometimes you have to enjoy the absurdity of it all.

I was pretty much bored by "In the Fold," it offered nothing new (see my comments above for how shows like Stargate did that). But, I'm not ready to give up on The Orville quite yet. It could become something great if it gets over its "See, we're just like Trek!" phase. However, I am already done with the fanbase of the show. It seems as if the fans keep going to the "It's better than Discovery" or the slightly-veiled, "The Orville is the spiritual successor to Trek" comments. If you're show can't stand by itself without the constant comparisons to another show, it really isn't that strong to begin with. Yes, I know those of us who haven't sipped The McFarlane-aid bring it up, too. It really would benefit everyone if the show could stand by itself. Sadly, I don't believe it can and am hoping to be proven wrong.

 

[BillJ]

..."The Orville is the spiritual successor to Trek" comments.

I believe that The Orville is more of a spiritual successor to the original Star Trek than Discovery is. There is a feeling of embracing the adventure that is sorely lacking in Discovery.

 

[shivkala]

I believe that The Orville is more of a spiritual successor to the original Star Trek than Discovery is. There is a feeling of embracing the adventure that is sorely lacking in Discovery.

That's fine, but it's repeated so often, it seems that all The Orville has to offer is a feeling that Discovery isn't giving people. I still doubt that will last long. I, personally, wait with bated breath for each Sunday and get around to The Orville when I can.

 

[Mudd]

I believe that The Orville is more of a spiritual successor to the original Star Trek than Discovery is. There is a feeling of embracing the adventure that is sorely lacking in Discovery.

Yep. Aside from callbacks, Discovery doesn't have much in common with the original Star Trek.

I dropped Discovery after last weekend's. CBS finally asked for money.

It has more to do with the actor than the writing, there's just something indescribable about his performance that actually makes him feel like a real person.

Rapp really is something. I thought he and Isaacs were the best performers on Discovery.

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[imdbrefugee]

You can do stories that copy Star Trek stories without it seeming derivative. Stargate did it all the time but it always felt like its own thing. Orville does it in a way so stylistically close to the original it never feels like its own thing.

Orville is a big Star Trek shaped member berry. Making you 'member is nice for a while but it only goes so far.

Although one thing I will say in defense of the upvote/downvote metrics, I think it follows from some of the stuff we saw that upvotes become meaningful if they outnumber the downvotes, even though it was not stated explicitly. I speculate that if you get to 10 million upvotes before you get to 10 million downvotes, the count stops there.

I wouldn't mind the Ed/Elara thing just because I want to see a guy act like a man and date a ridiculously strong woman without being threatened by it. Just once, no Riley garbage, just a man who learns to be secure in his masculinity having a girlfriend who can kick a 70 yard field goal with him as the ball.

Riley? Is that a BtVS reference? I could hug you.

Now I remembered BtVS S6 and S7 and cannot stop vomiting

 

[Mudd]

BTVS was brilliant from start to finish. Closest thing to a perfect genre show there's been.

 

[Ghislaine H. B. BRAEME]

Just read the news about The Orville and its awaited renewa (well, I hoped)l. Really glad because even if the show doesn't deserve the favors of TVLine's Michael Auisello and his acolytes, this does not diminish its quality, which is better and better (and WOW for the guest-stars!).

For my part, I still prefer The Orville to Discovery. The stories adressed leave us thinking for a while, without forgetting the funny side of certain people and/or situations.

My only frustration is the fact that the french version of episodes 5-6-7-8 are still missing on the concerned downloading websites and I must be content of the original version. By contrast,, there is no problem to find the missing episodes in german, spanish, italian (among others languages) versions. :-(

 

[Nakita Akita]

Elara and Ed is just a creepy dynamic. She may be strong but he is the Captain and much older. The days of the Captain and the Ensign are long behind us, unless the show wanted to do a TOS throwback thing.

Can you explain further why it's a creepy dynamic?
I'm not trying to be a jerk but just for clarification.

Personally, I think she's to good for him.
I think by the time she's his age she'd be an admiral at the minimum. Plus she is cute and he is 'meh'. But more so because he seems like he isn't the brightest crayon in the box. I think they should have had his ex be the captain and him be the first officer.
TNG Riker, never up to snuff. Lol.

 

[tomalak301]

BTVS was brilliant from start to finish. Closest thing to a perfect genre show there's been.

I’m so bummed I missed Buffy when it was on. I keep hearing good things.

I really liked Discovery last night but I feel like the cast on Orville is who I want to hang out with more. I can understand why these comparisons are getting annoying though.

 

[theenglish]

Can you explain further why it's a creepy dynamic?
I'm not trying to be a jerk but just for clarification.

Personally, I think she's to good for him.
I think by the time she's his age she'd be an admiral at the minimum. Plus she is cute and he is 'meh'. But more so because he seems like he isn't the brightest crayon in the box. I think they should have had his ex be the captain and him be the first officer.
TNG Riker, never up to snuff. Lol.

Aside from the age difference, she obviously has a school girl crush on her commanding officer. The power dynamic and the emotional dynamic are exactly the structure of a RW grooming scenario. I'm not saying you can't have legitimate relationships in such circumstances but they rarely end well at best and can have serious psychological trauma at worst.

 

[Mudd]

I think she stole the idea.

 

[WarpFactorZ]

Just tuned in. Seems to be very similar to an episode of Black Mirror. Entertaining anyway.

 

[slappy]

Let me know when anything consequential happens on Discovery. Anything interesting, anyway.

Every single episode. Show is amazing. Best since DS9 in my opinion.

I mean, we already know the consequences of the two major storylines (such as they are): the 'Shroom drive and the War Against Halloween both come to nothing. Bupkis.[/QUOTE]

Are you a time traveller? Or do you have some sort of in with the producers or something? How do you know this?

 

[BillJ]

Are you a time traveller? Or do you have some sort of in with the producers or something? How do you know this?

If it is the Prime universe, then they can't be anything important. The spore drive will have a defect preventing it from being used, the Klingon war at best ends in a stalemate. Just like nothing important can happen to Sarek or Mudd.

By trying to cram it into the Prime timeline, they sucked all the possible drama out of the story before they ever started. They could've balanced that by creating characters that I cared about, but there is really very little there to care about.