The Orville. Anyone loving it?

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by Cyanide Muffin, Dec 23, 2019.

  1. Alan Roi

    Alan Roi Commodore Fleet Captain

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    In my experience both terms have often been used to describe the same thing. One by people who don't like what they are looking at, and the other by people who like what they are looking at.
     
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  2. Flying Spaghetti Monster

    Flying Spaghetti Monster Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Complex can have complicated themes. It can also have twists and turns and added plot layers.
    Convoluted can mean piling twists and turns for the sake of seeming complex.
     
  3. Alan Roi

    Alan Roi Commodore Fleet Captain

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    Sure, you can make up your own meanings for words, but that makes communication more difficult.

    And such critiques are typically applied subjectively. For instance, people who like Legion, call it complex. People who don't like it call it convoluted. The disparity is easy to google. Neither of Discovery's seasons are either structurally complex or convoluted, as they are fairly straightforward and easy to follow. Twists and turns aren't piled on as there really aren't enough of them to make for a pile.
     
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  4. Flying Spaghetti Monster

    Flying Spaghetti Monster Vice Admiral Admiral

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    sure. Do I need to preface every opinion I make with "in my opinion..." ?
     
  5. Owain Taggart

    Owain Taggart Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Hah, yes! How epic would that be? Yeah, if Patrick Stewart were to guest-star, that'd be a great role for him.
     
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  6. Flying Spaghetti Monster

    Flying Spaghetti Monster Vice Admiral Admiral

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    convoluted is when you can take a simple plot, like BvS and so much crap to make it seem complex, but none of it holds up under scrutiny
     
  7. Alan Roi

    Alan Roi Commodore Fleet Captain

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    BvS? BvS complaining is one of the greatest examples of misuse of the term convoluted in as long as I remember, although the use when describing Disco is close in its misuse. Convoluted is not a synonym for pretentious. Convoluted most accurately used describes something that is made to be difficult to follow or understand as an end unto itself. Primer, for example, is convoluted. Lost is convoluted. Some might successfully argue that the Legion TV series is convoluted. The X-Files conspiracy storyline is convoluted. BvS isn't convoluted, it's just not the film many traditionalists wanted and saw as a failed attempt to elevate the genre that crashed and burned. Disco is a series many Star Trek canonistas didn't want and don't like, and seen as a failed attempt to move ST into the 21st century that crashed and burned. Neither is hard to follow or understand or intended to be by its makers, therefore neither is convoluted, although both may be far more accurately complained about by nostalgists, canonistas and traditionalists as pretentious.
     
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  8. JirinPanthosa

    JirinPanthosa Admiral Admiral

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    Convoluted tends to be used to mean complexity that doesn’t add value, so a lot of it depends on whether you subjectively think it adds value.

    People who call Disco convoluted or pretentious tend to be just general detractors picking from a hat of critical buzzwords to try to make their subjective opinion of the show objective.
     
  9. BillJ

    BillJ History's Greatest Monster Premium Member

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    I find Discovery uninspired. Suckling at the teat of much better material to give itself importance it would otherwise have to work for.
     
  10. Alan Roi

    Alan Roi Commodore Fleet Captain

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    That's a description which could easily and more aptly be applied to The Orville, IMO, given its presentation and how TNG nostalgists have rallied in support of its devotion to sensibilities which are 30 years past their best before date.
     
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  11. BillJ

    BillJ History's Greatest Monster Premium Member

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    The difference being, The Orville seems to be a celebration of what came before. Discovery seems more calculated to draw subscriptions, lacking the soul The Orville has.

    And I'm primarily a TOS guy.

    As in anything, YMMV.
     
  12. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

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    Orville is hit and miss for me. There are times were it has genuine exploration and interest and comedy, as well some great drama. But, it doesn't hook me the same way as Trek did. It feels very disposable.
     
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  13. BillJ

    BillJ History's Greatest Monster Premium Member

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    Probably because it doesn't have fifty years of history to draw from.
     
  14. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

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    Maybe, though I don't feel that is accurate for me. I want to like Mercer as a character but he feels very inconsistent. Same with many of the other characters. I think Bortus is the closest but even he isn't enough to keep me coming back.

    I don't know if it is history or not, but I don't feel drawn back to it.
     
  15. BillJ

    BillJ History's Greatest Monster Premium Member

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    Fair enough. Some things that work for some folks, won't work for others.

    IDIC and all that. :beer:
     
  16. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

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    Indeed. I did like it when it started off. It just fizzled...
     
  17. Alan Roi

    Alan Roi Commodore Fleet Captain

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    The Orville is the closest copy of Star Trek ever broadcast. It deliberately and intentionally draws from the franchise it's copying constantly. For better or worse, its the TV equivalent of a cover band. I like Elvis, but I sure do find contemporary remixes of his songs a lot more interesting than anything I'll get from watching anl Elvis impersonator do his performance.
     
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  18. BillJ

    BillJ History's Greatest Monster Premium Member

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    I don't think so. But your mileage may vary.
     
  19. Cyanide Muffin

    Cyanide Muffin Time is ticking away, tick, tick, ticking away. Premium Member

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    Talla is nice and seems to have more screen time then Alara had