In my experience both terms have often been used to describe the same thing. One by people who don't like what they are looking at, and the other by people who like what they are looking at.
The Orville. Anyone loving it?
- Thread starter Gingerbread Demon
- Start date
In my experience both terms have often been used to describe the same thing. One by people who don't like what they are looking at, and the other by people who like what they are looking at.
Complex can have complicated themes. It can also have twists and turns and added plot layers.
Convoluted can mean piling twists and turns for the sake of seeming complex.
Convoluted can mean piling twists and turns for the sake of seeming complex.
Sure, you can make up your own meanings for words, but that makes communication more difficult.
And such critiques are typically applied subjectively. For instance, people who like Legion, call it complex. People who don't like it call it convoluted. The disparity is easy to google. Neither of Discovery's seasons are either structurally complex or convoluted, as they are fairly straightforward and easy to follow. Twists and turns aren't piled on as there really aren't enough of them to make for a pile.
sure. Do I need to preface every opinion I make with "in my opinion..." ?
I assume the leader of this planet is none other than Sir Patrick himself?? And he has two deputies played respectively by Ian McKellen and Michael Gambon
Hah, yes! How epic would that be? Yeah, if Patrick Stewart were to guest-star, that'd be a great role for him.
convoluted is when you can take a simple plot, like BvS and so much crap to make it seem complex, but none of it holds up under scrutiny
BvS? BvS complaining is one of the greatest examples of misuse of the term convoluted in as long as I remember, although the use when describing Disco is close in its misuse. Convoluted is not a synonym for pretentious. Convoluted most accurately used describes something that is made to be difficult to follow or understand as an end unto itself. Primer, for example, is convoluted. Lost is convoluted. Some might successfully argue that the Legion TV series is convoluted. The X-Files conspiracy storyline is convoluted. BvS isn't convoluted, it's just not the film many traditionalists wanted and saw as a failed attempt to elevate the genre that crashed and burned. Disco is a series many Star Trek canonistas didn't want and don't like, and seen as a failed attempt to move ST into the 21st century that crashed and burned. Neither is hard to follow or understand or intended to be by its makers, therefore neither is convoluted, although both may be far more accurately complained about by nostalgists, canonistas and traditionalists as pretentious.
Convoluted tends to be used to mean complexity that doesn’t add value, so a lot of it depends on whether you subjectively think it adds value.
People who call Disco convoluted or pretentious tend to be just general detractors picking from a hat of critical buzzwords to try to make their subjective opinion of the show objective.
People who call Disco convoluted or pretentious tend to be just general detractors picking from a hat of critical buzzwords to try to make their subjective opinion of the show objective.
I find Discovery uninspired. Suckling at the teat of much better material to give itself importance it would otherwise have to work for.
That's a description which could easily and more aptly be applied to The Orville, IMO, given its presentation and how TNG nostalgists have rallied in support of its devotion to sensibilities which are 30 years past their best before date.
The difference being, The Orville seems to be a celebration of what came before. Discovery seems more calculated to draw subscriptions, lacking the soul The Orville has.
And I'm primarily a TOS guy.
As in anything, YMMV.
Orville is hit and miss for me. There are times were it has genuine exploration and interest and comedy, as well some great drama. But, it doesn't hook me the same way as Trek did. It feels very disposable.
Probably because it doesn't have fifty years of history to draw from.
Maybe, though I don't feel that is accurate for me. I want to like Mercer as a character but he feels very inconsistent. Same with many of the other characters. I think Bortus is the closest but even he isn't enough to keep me coming back.
I don't know if it is history or not, but I don't feel drawn back to it.
Fair enough. Some things that work for some folks, won't work for others.
IDIC and all that.
Indeed. I did like it when it started off. It just fizzled...Fair enough. Some things that work for some folks, won't work for others.
IDIC and all that.
The Orville is the closest copy of Star Trek ever broadcast. It deliberately and intentionally draws from the franchise it's copying constantly. For better or worse, its the TV equivalent of a cover band. I like Elvis, but I sure do find contemporary remixes of his songs a lot more interesting than anything I'll get from watching anl Elvis impersonator do his performance.
I don't think so. But your mileage may vary.
Talla is nice and seems to have more screen time then Alara had
Even with the humorous approach the Orville feels like the spiritual successor to Star Trek. I just started watching and I’m at the end of season 1, so I’m looking forward to season two. It’s good to feel trek again in this show.
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