The One Thing You Could Change...

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Deep Space Nine' started by Farscape One, May 14, 2020.

  1. Angry Fanboy

    Angry Fanboy Captain Captain

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    I don't think that it necessarily follows Garak having dubious morals regarding spying, murder etc necessarily means this is carried through into all areas of his life, including his relationships.
     
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  2. Ocanain

    Ocanain Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Based on what?
     
  3. Angry Fanboy

    Angry Fanboy Captain Captain

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    Based on my opinion, lived experience, things I've read etc.

    Surely based on the same things anyone uses when making a judgement whether they agree or disagree with something.

    Not sure what other basis you're looking for me to provide here to be honest - would 'based on my experience of exiled Cardassian spies turned tailors' be a sufficient answer?
     
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  4. Ocanain

    Ocanain Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Haha no, not quite. Your own judgement of course but more specifically I meant to what elements made you feel that way. For instance; what reasons would one find murder acceptable but not age gap dating or that an underlying desire of Dukat’s respect may have influenced it. Stuff like that.
     
  5. Angry Fanboy

    Angry Fanboy Captain Captain

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    Because one doesn't necessarily follow the other - having very little morals about one thing doesn't mean this applies to everything else.

    To take an example: a person who burgles houses regularly could otherwise be a very caring parent - despite having no morals about stealing from others it doesn't necessarily follow that they have no morals regarding their children.

    And likewise although Garak has clearly engaged in murder and deceit in service to himself or Cardassia etc it doesn't necessarily follow that that dubious moral compass also applies to pursuing a relationship with someone who is, what, thirty or forty years younger?

    Garak may well have been gay, I'm just refuting your opinion that him having dubious morals in one aspect of his life automatically carries through to all other aspects.
     
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  6. Ocanain

    Ocanain Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    That’s fair. I was just wondering.
     
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  7. LtComData

    LtComData Ensign Newbie

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    Give Damar a better death scene instead of the blink-and-miss-it we got.
     
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  8. Qonundrum

    Qonundrum Vice Admiral Admiral

    One of these five, unless a five-in-one tie is okay:

    1. Section 31 (strains 24th century Trek a bit much, regardless if their first episode is strong)
    2. Vic Fontaine
    3. Bashir being a genetic experiment
    4. Dax's demise is dumber than Yar's and by a distance of 47 light years
    5. The temporal spanking division featuring Muldar and Scully Dulmar and Lucsly - it'd work just as well with Bashir and Garak reminiscing at Quark's bar. DS9 and VOY used time travel way too much as a plot gimmick; even Borg leave their temporal bits freely available with little security. Even classics like "Timeless" have that one moment of strain of "Hey look at this, there's a Borg temporal doohickey over here! What luck!")
     
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  9. Qonundrum

    Qonundrum Vice Admiral Admiral

    I suppose they were more worried about doing serialization and other risks given how much was spent on the sets. They could have waited and do a big "coming out (to nobody's surprise)" moment in a later season. Garak felt like a 3D character from the get-go and wouldn't be seen as gimmicky.

    If they all really hated the notions, would Garak and other characters be presented in a way that even allowed audiences to think "I'd bet he's gay?" at all?
     
  10. nickyboy

    nickyboy Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    No Worf
     
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  11. LtComData

    LtComData Ensign Newbie

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    Oh yeah one more, I would remove "Second Sight" which is a crap episode and a weird way to approach Sisko's grief over Jennifer, and instead put in a one-off encounter with the Borg. I never felt Sisko's reconciliation with Picard was really closure for his wife's death, just him acknowledging it wasn't Picard's fault. A one-off Borg episode could have helped him come to terms with it and it would have been interesting to see how the DS9 cast interacted with Borg.
     
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  12. jtm55

    jtm55 Ensign Red Shirt

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    HI All
    The Episode "Through the Looking Glass" I would have had Commander Sisko at least ask the alternate Jennifer Sisko to return with him
     
  13. kkt

    kkt Commodore Commodore

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    I think seeing the Borg once, during Emissary, was plenty for the whole series. TNG and Voyager saw the Borg enough for everybody.
     
  14. Paul755

    Paul755 Commodore Commodore

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    I thought an interesting thread would have been how the Dominion would have dealt with the Borg.

    But yeah, they were so over done thanks to Voyager it’s best that they didn’t go there.
     
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  15. Bry_Sinclair

    Bry_Sinclair Vice Admiral Admiral

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    My main issue with having Worf on the show was the over-reliance on Klingon plots, which were already getting tedious by the end of TNG. Granted, he became a more fleshed out character in DS9 but they could've brought in someone completely original and reduce the Klingons from the show until you got to the Dominion War and just had a recurring General when needed.
     
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  16. Paul755

    Paul755 Commodore Commodore

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    The only thing I didn’t like about Worf on DS9 were all the bad excuses they made to get him back on the Enterprise for the movies.

    And I still maintain, there is no way in hell Sisko let’s Worf take the Defiant to Earth to fight the Borg without him. Sisko risks court martial for that fight.
     
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  17. kkt

    kkt Commodore Commodore

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    I see that as a problem with Worf in the movies, not a problem with Worf on DS9. :)
     
  18. trekshark

    trekshark Captain Captain

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    fully agree
     
  19. kkt

    kkt Commodore Commodore

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    Yes. He has the best reason of anybody (except possibly Picard) for wanting to be in the fight against the Borg personally.
     
  20. Paul755

    Paul755 Commodore Commodore

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    I bet he blew his top when he saw the condition Worf brought the ship back in.