The Omega Glory...

[MAGolding]

Story wise I'm asking! After the Kohms took over the place where did the defeated Yangs go to? The hills? Surely the Kohms would have gone after them! It's almost as if the Yangs had come from another territory after years in the wilderness to reclaim their ancient homelands! A bit like the British who were thrown out of Btitain and went to live in France (Brittany) and hundreds of years later their progeny returned with William The Conqueror to take back the lands of their forefathers!
JB

Your memory exaggerates. During the really dark and little known period from about 411 to 597 a number of Britons did emigrate to Armorica and make it Brittany while during the same era members of various Germanic tribes emigrated to the island of Great Britain and converted the southern part of it into Anglo-Saxon England, presumably fighting many battles with the Romano-Britons in the process.

Bu there is hardly proof that the presumably somewhat small percentage of the Romano-Britons who emigrated to Brittany did so because they were thrown out of Britain.

And no doubt only a tiny percentage of the Bretons in Brittany joined the forces of William the Invader, of which they formed only a rather small percentage. So it is hardly the case that the new Norman ruling class in England was entirely composed of the entire former ruling class of post Roman Britain. There would only be a tiny overlap between the former ruling class of sub Roman Britain and the ruling class of Norman England.

 

[Prax]

Are you saying William (the Norman) did not say "WHAT WAS OURS.. IS OURS AGAIN!"??

 

[Noname Given]

Sorry...I haven't read the whole thread. Did we cover Kirks greatest most egrigious PD violation is in Omega Glory???

"I just told them what their documents really mean!!"...Who the **** asked you to do that??? And even then he's wrong! It DOESNT apply to all people! So let me get this right Kirk....you just presumed to tell them what their most sacred document "really" means...based on your schollllarrrrrly recollection??

Since Captain Tracey ALREADY broke the PD by the time Kirk is on the planet, Kirk's 'interference' is no violation as the PD was already abrogated.

 

[Timo]

I want to comment that Tracey and Kirks 'use' of the Bible is hilarious. They both putting a lot of stock in their remembrance of shit.

Supposedly they recognize the specific edition, though... And folks like that aren't uncommon, and we hear Kirk do quotes elsewhere, too. Perhaps this is just another of those rolls of seven for our hero, who conveniently happens to be an avid reader of this particular Book.

And assuming the Yangs will concur.

Why not assume that? Pretending to be an expert generally does work just fine. Both of them already have the upper hand, having stunned the natives with their knowledge of 'em Holey Wurds. When the first one to put a word of his own edgewise against the Wurds risks getting beheaded for blasphemy, it really is advantage aliens, and them pushing forward leaves no time for the natives to regroup.

"Does not your book say not to wear clothes of mixed fiber??? LOOK AT HIS TAG!! 50% cotton!!...no its in there...here, let me look. Deuteronomy I think. Hold on...."

(Doubly so because finding those goddamn tags may be a chore, too.)

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Timo]

I think there has to be some sort of a Starfleet regulation against keeping your gun on "kill" as a default. Tracey really should have responded with nonlethal force there. Although I can easily understand why he didn't: if he stopped to adjust his own setting away from the "talk to the Yangs in the only language they understand" one, Galloway would stun him and it would all be over.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Tenacity]

Since Captain Tracey ALREADY broke the PD by the time Kirk is on the planet, Kirk's 'interference' is no violation as the PD was already abrogated.

If one person breaks a law, that means then everyone get's too?

 

[Timo]

Probably so, or at least it becomes a wholly different crime. If you find a person who was shot dead, and use the corpse for target practice, you will not be charged with murder, but there will be charges on indecent treatment of a cadaver or whatnot...

Is Kirk adding to the damage already done? By talking to the entire planet via television in "Bread and Circuses", he would have; by talking to Claudius who already was in the know, not.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Prax]

Galloway was reaching for a weapon. Like that idiot in the FRIDAY'S CHILD teaser who didn't attend McCoy's briefing. He got better somehow one year later and changed his name to Johnson. It takes a lot to kill this guy.

Lol, I didn't notice that. I thought he just walked and killed him.

 

[Noname Given]

If one person breaks a law, that means then everyone get's too?

In practice (as shown on the various Star Trek series) - once the PD is violated/no longer in effect, the rules of the PD no longer apply.

 

[Prax]

You might call it The Prime Threshold[for dealing with primitive aliens, internal wars, and near-warp cultures]

 

[johnnybear]

All Kirk needed to do is allow Sulu and the security guys a couple of days on Omega IV and then the rest of the crew would be safe once they beamed back to the ship! McCoy said that if the Exeter landing party had of stayed on the planet they would have self immunized themselves but because they left early they took that death back to the ship!
That has to the answer because if not then every ship that went there would not be allowed anywhere else in the Federation due to the death toll that would hit each and every planet visited!
JB

 

[johnnybear]

Your memory exaggerates. During the really dark and little known period from about 411 to 597 a number of Britons did emigrate to Armorica and make it Brittany while during the same era members of various Germanic tribes emigrated to the island of Great Britain and converted the southern part of it into Anglo-Saxon England, presumably fighting many battles with the Romano-Britons in the process.

Bu there is hardly proof that the presumably somewhat small percentage of the Romano-Britons who emigrated to Brittany did so because they were thrown out of Britain.

And no doubt only a tiny percentage of the Bretons in Brittany joined the forces of William the Invader, of which they formed only a rather small percentage. So it is hardly the case that the new Norman ruling class in England was entirely composed of the entire former ruling class of post Roman Britain. There would only be a tiny overlap between the former ruling class of sub Roman Britain and the ruling class of Norman England.

No I'm not saying that the Normans believed that but the descendants of the Britons who left Britain hundreds of years earlier sure would have even if they were only a small percentage of William's forces that arrived on the shores!
JB

 

[Henoch]

All Kirk needed to do is allow Sulu and the security guys a couple of days on Omega IV and then the rest of the crew would be safe once they beamed back to the ship! McCoy said that if the Exeter landing party had of stayed on the planet they would have self immunized themselves but because they left early they took that death back to the ship!
That has to the answer because if not then every ship that went there would not be allowed anywhere else in the Federation due to the death toll that would hit each and every planet visited!
JB

Good medical observation, JB, that planet-side crew are immunized AND are not carriers of the disease, anymore. By the way, we haven't discussed the amazing disease itself. To evaporate all the water out of your body and crystallize the remaining materials; WOW, that's one nasty bug. To contaminate the entire ship so shortly, it must have been airborne and not filtered out by the ship's environmental systems. Tracey did say they did not detect it with their medical scanners, either:

TRACEY: Our medi-scanners revealed this planet as perfectly harmless. The villagers, the Kohms here, were friendly enough once they got over the shock of my white skin. As you've seen, we resemble the Yangs, the savages. My landing party transported back to the ship. I stayed down here to arrange for the planet survey with the village elders. The next thing I knew, the ship was calling me. The landing party had taken an unknown disease back. My crew, Jim. My entire crew. Gone.

Later, McCoy does the research and learns all about the disease and its natural immunization on the planet. My bet, the disease is airborne and the immunization comes primarily from the water. Water is probably the first thing any person desires after a few hours on the planet, followed by food. Water and food slowly extracts the agents out of the soil.

KIRK: Good. Did you find out anything?
MCCOY: Yes. I'm convinced that once there was a frightening biological war that existed here. The virus still exists. Then over the years, nature built up these natural immunising agents in the food, the water, and the soil.
SPOCK: War created an imbalance and nature counterbalanced it.
KIRK: There is a disease here, something that affected the Exeter landing party and us.
MCCOY: That's right. These immunising agents take time, and that's the real tragedy. Had the Exeter landing party stayed here just a few hours longer, they never would have died.
KIRK: Then we can leave any time we want to. Tracey is of the opinion these immunising agents can become a fountain of youth. There are people here over a thousand years old, Bones.
MCCOY: Survival of the fittest, because their ancestors who survived had to have a superior resistance. Then they built up these powerful protective antibodies in the blood during the wars. Now, if you want to destroy a civilisation or a whole world, your descendants might develop a longer life, but I hardly think it's worth it.
KIRK: Then anything you develop here as a result of all this is useless.
MCCOY: Who knows? It might eventually cure the common cold, but lengthen lives? Poppycock. I can do more for you if you just eat right and exercise regularly.

 

[johnnybear]

Good thinking, Bond!!!
JB

 

[Timo]

In theory, then, McCoy might think that there's no harm in letting the disease into the ship, because he has identified the immunizing substances and can offer them immediately in concentrated form, before the somewhat slowly acting disease does harm to the shipful of folks now contaminated.

That'd make the Enterprise immune to boarding attacks for the rest of her service life... But also unable to host successful diplomatic meetings. (Unless success is measured in how quickly one can eliminate conflicting viewpoints!)

The nature and effectiveness of "biofilters" or "decontaminators" in transporters in the TOS era is... ambiguous at best. I doubt the heroes would feel any safer even if McCoy claimed he had reprogrammed those things to cover the Omegan ailment. But quarantine aboard the ship might be safer for everybody involved than even one hour spent on the planet ruled by the savages whose whole religion has just been turned on its head.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Prax]

Then either the whole Galaxy would need to be immunized, or the whole Enterprise permanently quarantined (or destroyed).

 

[Timo]

Or then just the quarantine chamber destroyed/decontaminated, assuming this is where McCoy heals Sulu and the redshirts. Tracey's ship didn't try quarantine, so odds are that it might actually work, especially now that they more or less know what they are dealing with.

The point being, being on orbit protects from the sticks and stones that are about to fly soon enough when the Yangs start their Civil War over the issue of whose rights the Holey Wurds really define. Setting up a quarantine hut for Sulu's team would be provocative at best, suicidal at worst - the very sort of thing that resulted in Tracey slaughtering the natives in the thousands in the first place...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Prax]

Or then just the quarantine chamber destroyed/decontaminated, assuming this is where McCoy heals Sulu and the redshirts. Tracey's ship didn't try quarantine, so odds are that it might actually work, especially now that they more or less know what they are dealing with.

The point being, being on orbit protects from the sticks and stones that are about to fly soon enough when the Yangs start their Civil War over the issue of whose rights the Holey Wurds really define. Setting up a quarantine hut for Sulu's team would be provocative at best, suicidal at worst - the very sort of thing that resulted in Tracey slaughtering the natives in the thousands in the first place...

Timo Saloniemi

That's why I said they would need to find a nice rural area on the planet to set up these quarantine huts.

 

[Timo]

My problem with that is that the Yangs are the very definition of rural...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Prax]

They can't be everywhere. Just beam down to notRussia, or notAustralia. It doesn't matter anyway, because the only way this works is if McCoy has created a miracle immunization that will not allow the landing party to carry the disease back to the ship, since as someone else pointed out, immunizing the whole crew by whatever is in the air or water will do nothing for whoever else the crew comes in contact with down the road.