The Omega Glory...

Discussion in 'Star Trek - The Original & Animated Series' started by Riker'sMailbox, Sep 27, 2018.

  1. Henoch

    Henoch Rear Admiral Premium Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2018
    Location:
    Back On The Shelf
    Ron Tracey was the victim? Sounds like you are setting up his defense strategy. He allegedly killed Lt. Galloway, and allegedly violated the Prime Directive (umbrellaed under this is the killing thousands of Khoms). No video records. All the evidence is from one source, James T. Kirk and his puppet Enterprise crew. Based on the Starfleet standards from Court Martial:
    STONE: Stop recording. Now, look, Jim Ron. Not one man in a million could do what you and I have done. Command a starship. A hundred decisions a day, hundreds of lives staked on you making every one of them right. You're played out, Jim Ron. Exhausted.
    KIRK TRACEY: Is that the way you see it?
    STONE: That's the way my report'll read if you co-operate.
    KIRK TRACEY: A physical breakdown. Possibly even mental collapse.
    STONE: Possibly.
    KIRK TRACEY: I'd be admitting a man died because
    STONE: Admit nothing. Say nothing. Let me bury the matter here and now. No starship captain has ever stood trial before, and I don't want you to be the first.
    KIRK TRACEY: But if what you suspect is true, then I'm guilty. I should be punished.
    STONE: I'm thinking of the service. I won't have it smeared.​
    Either the above deal happens, or Samuel T. Cogley will get him off. Maybe a few treatments under the neural neutralizer will be his plea deal sentence to cure him of his mental breakdown. Then he goes off to be an Orion trader, dealing in green animal women, slaves. :sigh:
     
    Lance and johnnybear like this.
  2. TREK_GOD_1

    TREK_GOD_1 Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    May 24, 2006
    Location:
    Escaped from Delta Vega
    Wrong. Maab set the regime change in motion with his open alliance with Kras the Klingon and the empire he represented. As the episode plainly laid out, Maab was plotting against Akaar, so one way or another, the existing leadership was going to change--and that included killing Akkar's wife and unborn child. Through his actions, Kirk influenced Maab to see his treachery was disrupting his land/people, hence his giving Eleen her life back and sacrificing his own to set Kras up for his death. With Eleen back in her rightful place along with her newborn son, things were going in the direction they were meant to.
     
    Marsden likes this.
  3. Dale Sams

    Dale Sams Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2012
    I wonder when the last time a thread was started that broke down each Kirk PD violation....I think I'm too old to wade through pages of "(Fixes glasses) 'The Prime Directive only applies to species who arn't aware of space-faring races'"

    Maybe we can keep it simple and just rail on the Abrams misinterp that saving species from enviromental disasters is a PD violation.
     
    Lance likes this.
  4. johnnybear

    johnnybear Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2014
    I like it, Henoch! but I'm sure Starfleet Command would have had Tracey put into medical care before they even thought about regulations and the Prime Directive! :techman:
    JB
     
  5. Prax

    Prax Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2017
    Location:
    Prax
    I have always liked this episode. I don't understand why it's considered "bad" let alone so bad that it always makes it onto the "worst star trek episodes" lists, but I have a sneaking suspicion it's simply because of the Constitution part at the very end. It's like one of those popular opinions that get formed, then repeated, then widely accepted.

    Star Trek is a platform for telling interesting sci fi stories; for exploring "what ifs."

    The Omega Glory is "What if the cold war erupted into a full scale conflict that devastated the world?" and "What if the Communists successfully conquered the west?"

    This alone would be enough for a good classic Twilight Zone episode, but star Trek brings something more to the table. There's a built in universe and characters to explore this, along with built in rules, so we also get a conflict from this rogue captain, who had great prestige, but watched his whole crew die, and was left marooned on a planet in a war, who compromised his morals and code of conduct, betrayed his uniform, and became a terrible person. The actor who plays Captain Tracey is just brilliant. It's an amazing performance, and he's totally compelling. He's threatening too. You get the feeling that this guy is stronger and more capable than Kirk. He's also smart, and manipulative.

    Some of my favorite moments are:
    -All the brawling between Tracey and Kirk.
    -When Spock does the neck pinch on the girl and spooks the crap out of the Yang leader in the jail cell.
    -Actually, all of the dialogue between Spock and Kirk in the jail
    -Spock's mind manipulation of the girl to bring him the communicator
    -Tracey's attempt to convince the Yang leader that Spock is the devil
    -and many more...
     
    TREK_GOD_1, Lance and Marsden like this.
  6. Marsden

    Marsden Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2013
    Location:
    Marsden is very sad.
    You keep saying that word but I don't think it means what you think it means!

    Nowhere did anyone say anything about "pre-warp civilizations" being safe or ignored by the Federation. Truth is it wasn't clearly defined, so me saying what it said is hypocritical, but what I interpreted it to mean from the few mentions was: Not exploiting the technological advantage that Star Fleet had to exploit the natives .

    So, talking to them once it's established they already know about other worlds, ok. If they don't seem to know at all, stay quiet. In either case, don't trick them into selling the place for some trivial piece of tech that Scotty could manufacture hundreds of, or certainly not attack them or enslave them.
    If they are all captives of a super computer or some other thing that is basically running them around like meat puppets, that's a gray area.
     
  7. Henoch

    Henoch Rear Admiral Premium Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2018
    Location:
    Back On The Shelf
    Not to Kirk. Hell, just the whiff of the situation and he's all over it. :techman:
     
    Lance likes this.
  8. Lance

    Lance Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    May 9, 2012
    Location:
    The Enterprise's Restroom
    It's worth noting that Ronald Tracey is iirc the only other Captain we see in TOS? Or the only time we see anyone other than Kirk with Captain's braids. As opposed to Commodores etc. This makes him a very unique villain, in some ways a "for want of a nail" version of Kirk, a reflection of what happens if the Captain of a starship goes bad. I also like what it says about Roddenberry's universe at this time (bearing in mind Roddenberry himself wrote the script): that humans, and Starfleet officers, in TOS at least, are not perfect, and are capable of greed, manipulation, doing truly nasty things. Tracey is representative of so much more to Star Trek than just being a villain-of-the-week. He's representative to a whole mindset. And Morgan Woodward plays those aspects of him perfectly. Tracey hasn't gone insane here. He's not like Decker in "The Doomsday Machine", who was left alone when all his crew got slaughtered and went insane. Tracey just fell into base human emotions, something inside him, which made him betray his oath and his uniform.
     
    Prax likes this.
  9. johnnybear

    johnnybear Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2014
    Tracey felt that the promise of bringing immortality to the universe might have freed him of the guilt of losing his crew on the USS Exeter!
    JB
     
  10. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    May 10, 2005
    Location:
    Confederation of Earth
    Exactly.

    Tracey was the one who was guilty of violating the Prime Directive. Kirk acted to correct that interference.

    As was his right.
     
    johnnybear likes this.
  11. Maurice

    Maurice Snagglepussed Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2005
    Location:
    Real Gone
    "Pen Pals".
     
    BillJ and CorporalCaptain like this.
  12. Henoch

    Henoch Rear Admiral Premium Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2018
    Location:
    Back On The Shelf
    I don't think he did. From the episode we learn that Kirk is only starting to believe that Tracey may have violated the Prime Directive only because the Khoms know of Hand Phasers. At this point, Kirk does not know the whole story, yet:
    Firstly, after the fact, you could say the planet was already not following a natural evolution. There's a freaking American flag, a Bible and the United States Constitution used for their holy items. Parallel development? Hogwash! These people are either are time-warped Earth traveling colonists, had an Earth visitation in its past, or were picked up and deposited by the Preservers.

    Secondly, The Yangs conquered the Khoms in spite of Tracey's meddling; without his interference, the Yangs would have still conquered the Khoms, only easier.

    Last, Tracey was attacked first by the Yangs, then he used his phaser in self-defense. Siding with the Khoms is also self-defense.

    Tracey knows he probably will never be given another ship after the death of his entire crew. Tracey's motive of discovering immortality for the Federation (and profiting from it) could be just a fortunate case of making lemonade when you are given lemons. The immortality discovery will prove that "risk is our business" especially if huge rewards occur for the Federation. The financial reward will compensate him for the mental stress/damage he acquired on the mission, lost of his job and damage to his reputation.
     
    Phoenix219 likes this.
  13. Dale Sams

    Dale Sams Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2012
    "Paradise Syndrome"

    Also the whole ep (Pen Pals) is just confusing. There's some talk about asking for help, and of course eventually they do help them. Which of course they should do!! FFS.

    You can't introduce stupid shit like "What if one of them grows up to become Space Hitler" or 'destiny' into saving someone from a natural disaster. You'd pull a kid out of a flood wouldn't you?? And if you could only save a few kids...you wouldn't let them all die would you?

    Also that ep with Worf's brother makes things confusing too. I would hope someone would have saved the planet if there was enough time. I do grant theres a SMALL argument to be made about whether you should save as many as you can in that ep. The argument against being who decides who lives and who dies? But i think 'let them all die' is ultimately cowardice.

    Obviously the Vians had no qualms in The Empath.
     
  14. Maurice

    Maurice Snagglepussed Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2005
    Location:
    Real Gone
    Did they debate saving the natives in that one? That was my point re "Pen Pals" in relation to STID.
     
    BillJ likes this.
  15. Dale Sams

    Dale Sams Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2012
    Ahh. Gotcha. No. They just did it.....over the span of several months.
     
  16. Prax

    Prax Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2017
    Location:
    Prax
    Pen Pals and the one with Worf's brother make me want to slap Picard
     
    Phoenix219 likes this.
  17. TREK_GOD_1

    TREK_GOD_1 Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    May 24, 2006
    Location:
    Escaped from Delta Vega
    I'm sure there are more episodes that would inspire that reaction about Picard.
     
    Phoenix219, ATimson and Marsden like this.
  18. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2003
    Actually, siding with the Khoms is suicide: they are the designated losers, a single village of leftovers from a global massacre.

    If Tracey wanted to survive for selfish reasons, he'd go to the Yangs. He's one of 'em himself, ethnically, and no doubt perfectly qualified to quote Holy Words just like Kirk. Also, if his motivation is to get hold of the secret of longevity, the Yangs are the go-to people there, too: Tracey is in the firm belief that the secret resides in all the inhabitants of the planet, not in the Khoms exclusively.

    Which just goes to show that Tracey is the hero of the piece and Kirk the villain. Tracey is just too cool a guy to spray "I prevented genocide!" on Kirk's face...

    Glossing over an initial confrontation between Tracey and the Yangs ought to be trivial: the savages might in fact appreciate that show of force. And Tracey seems to go for the god gambit anyway, not hiding his superiority much even in the Khom context.

    The one reason to prefer the Khom village over going native, or over just going to skulk in the infinite forests until help arrives months or years later, would be odds of pickup. If Tracey's communicator dies, the next starship won't find him from the forests; a fixed Khom urban center would be a better bet for where he meets a landing party than a random Yang teepee somewhere out in the plains. Just as proven by the events.

    This presumes the Yangs are only out there to burn, rape and slash: their "retaking" of the planet might in fact involve setting up urban centers, with Cloud William a lowbrow savage in charge of the reconquista while more level-headed parties erect cities of note. It's just that Kirk's ship sees no sign of Yang urbanism, and presumably Tracey's didn't either...

    Agreed save for the motivation. Losing a ship or a crew might not be a big deal, in the TOS context. But failing to commit suicide when confronted with the need to kill locals for self-defense is a capital offense in the terms outlaid in this very episode, and Tracey thus eventually will need to buy his way out of an asylum with the youth serum.

    And in the in-universe sense, the whole Observation Lounge conversation is about Data's insubordination, not about the planet that is about to die. Picard summons his top officers to pass judgement on the rebellious android, and invites debate on the specific issue over which Data rebelled; the heroes eagerly comply, playing devil's advocate and all. None of the "Perhaps we should let them die" proposals is supposed to be taken seriously - they are only made in order to explicate why the PD exists in the first place, and thus why Data here has committed an offense.

    The debate does not conclude with "Okay, so we let them die", but with "So there we have it; stop your antics now, Data, and you might yet have a career - and we can finally get down to the business of dealing with this planet". And deal they do, of course.

    In the out-universe sense, the episode is read differently by those who then go on to write "Homeward"...

    Umm, I seriously doubt that. The point was that the planet was going to die, and only gods like Q could alter that (and Picard, despite appearances, isn't in a position to ask Q for favors). So the choice would be between doing what Rodzhenko did, saving a handful of people, and not doing that.

    That the heroes would think otherwise is weird scifi, certainly.

    OTOH, in practice, we saw what would really happen: one of the "survivors" committed suicide right off the bat, and odds are that all the rest would quickly follow. There's no saving their culture, except as an artificial diorama in some museum of lost civilizations: odds are heavily against a single village successfully re-expanding into a civilization, unless receiving constant aid from the museum staff.

    (In theory, we humans here on Earth did take over the planet after starting with a single village, us being so fragile that our species was constantly undergoing "bottleneck" phases. But the flip side of that is that 99.999999% of the villages that previously attempted that perished, leaving no trace of their existence. The folks from this episode have no backup pool of individuals for a second try after they fail.)

    It would be interesting to learn what their limitation on saving everybody and his goldfish really was. If there was a hard limit on numbers, why not save 50/50 of the species involved, say? That this was not presented as an option just tells us that we don't fully understand what is going on. Is the inevitability of a single surviving culture a practical choice or an ideological one?

    Also, we only saw Gem tested. What was the competition? The Vians' own species? Rather altruist of them to not just accept but in fact dictate their own demise!

    Timo Saloniemi
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2019
  19. Mytran

    Mytran Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2009
    Location:
    North Wales
    I had the same question after a recent rewatch - who are the other race that is referred to? It's not even clear if the Vians are from the same star system

    As for the 50/50 thing, maybe they can only save a tiny representative part of the population? Any less would lack sufficient genetic viability
     
  20. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2003
    Spock tells the Vians that the local star is "theirs" and its end will mean their extinction, too. The Vians merely nod at this, FWIW. So they might well be natives, or at least landlords with presence.

    Spock further refers to the jeopardy facing "the millions of inhabitants of its planets", thus calling for at least two but allowing for more. At the beginning of the episode, Starfleet or the Federation apparently had zero knowledge of any inhabitants, so Spock is likely to be attempting rhetoric trickery rather than quoting solid facts at his disposal. Yet again the Vians decline to contradict him.

    The Vians then say that "of all the planets of Minara, [they] have the power to transport the inhabitants of only one to safety". This does not grammatically require them to transport all the inhabitants, but it is pretty explicit about the means of salvation: relocation away from the danger (be it to another star system, another dimension, deep into secure vaults inside a local world, whatever). It also suggests only people will be transported, not a whole planet. But the implication is that the means of transporting does not cater for the 50/50 approach, or the 33/33/33 one or whatever, nor for a 0.2/0.2 one where the bulk of both populations dies. Perhaps the transportation will involve a wormhole or comparable teleport, which can only be opened once and thus on a single world?

    Is the planet with the observatory and the Vian torture chamber the Vian home? The plot need for that does not exist. The torture chamber was apparently (at least per Spock's readings) founded directly below the UFP outpost, therefore in reaction to the outpost being established. It could have been founded on an utterly random planet, then. Alternately, Spock's readings are meaningless and the torture chamber exists... Well, elsewhere. This would also explain why the Vians' main facility in the star system (that is, the one with Gem) coincides with a silly UFP observatory - it really does not, and teleportation and illusions only make Spock think so.

    Having the Vians be masters of teleportation would allow them to evacuate entire planets. Limiting their ability to just one would then take extra doing, though...

    Timo Saloniemi