The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies: Kelvin Universe' started by Agent Richard07, Apr 30, 2009.


Grade the movie...

  1. Excellent

    707 vote(s)
  2. Above Average

    213 vote(s)
  3. Average

    84 vote(s)
  4. Below Average

    46 vote(s)
  5. Poor

    77 vote(s)
  1. cultcross

    cultcross #NotAllMods Moderator

    Jul 27, 2001
    This other Eden
    As I'm sure you're all waiting with baited breath to read what I thought of it, I'll dive straight in - I haven't read the whole thread, so I may well be repeating others.

    Overall impression: I loved it. I voted Excellent, let's get that out there at the beginning. It was very exciting, engaging, and most of all, fun. That's an important point, imho. BermaTrek lost sight of how to make this TV show 'fun'. It could do deep and meaningful, it could do heavy handed moralising, and it could do cringeingly unamusing 'comedy' episodes. But It lost track of how to make situations both dangerous and highly seriosu for the characters, and simulataneously, fun for the audience. This movie does that. It is a high stakes, emotionally involving film plot that nonetheless delivers on humour and excitement for the audience. Sure, some of the humour fell flat - particularly the "I like this ship, It's exciting!" line from the trailer - but most hit the mark. My cinema got a big laugh for Spock's "no, not really" line in the final confrontation.

    Casting: Largely, inspired. Quinto deserves Man of the Match mention here, he is the perfect Spock - I thought he'd be good, I never thought he'd be that good. He was Spock, in a very real way. Pine, I loved as well - different to Shatner, but still Kirk. Urban was a fantastic McCoy, Cho made a good Sulu - his delivery of the "Fencing." line made me laugh out loud. I was so-so about Saldana until the scene with Spock in the turbolift. Wonderful. I saw the Uhura from Spock's funeral in ST II in that girl in that scene. Yelchin had some pretty stupid stuff to do, lets be fair, but he pulled it off quite admirably - and was very good at Koenig's 'aside' remarks ending dramatic moments - shades of "guess whose coming to dinner".
    Eric Bana was a great choice as villain- the gravitas to be scary, but without needing to be moustache-twirling. I particularly liked his moments with Pike, the way he didn't need to be all grandeous to imply threat, a la Shinzon's philosphising.

    Tech: This was one of my favourite bits of the 'upgrade/reboot' - we have phasers that can shoot down torpedos, finally. We have engine rooms that are more than a pulsing light show, finally.
    The warp effect was very well done, as was the 'at warp' effect. The 'red matter' is a bit shit, to be frank, but then I haven't read the Countdown comics so I'll hold judgement on that.
    The big E herself was beautiful - I was one of the 'hmmm' crowd over the pictures of her, but the ship in action was fantastic looking. The Narada was very cool looking, and yet with the explanation as a mining ship actually seemed appropriate to its function - unlike, for example, the cruise ship interior of the Scimitar. And OK, it's a ship with a big pit in it again - but at least this one is actually excusable, unlike the bottomless pit on the bottom deck of the E-E.

    The plot: Wow. I was expecting a standard 'save the world' plot, and I was, I'll admit, expecting an at least partial reset button. So this kind of blew me away. OK, Earth was in danger again, but to carry through his threat on something as major (to Trek lore) as Vulcan was an incredible plot twist - and killing Amanda was pretty gut wrenching (one of Quinto's best moments, actually - he managed to convey such a world of emotion without dropping his Vulcan guise for more than a second). Future Spock was a bit pointless really, all told, but it was nonetheless nice to get Nimoy in there as a send off - although I wouldn't have been adverse to him just doing the final speech out of the blue as a surprise.

    What wasn't so good: Let's face it, it wasn't perfect - some bits I was less keen on - Sarek seemed wooden, didn't get how to act 'through' the Vulcan guise, imho. That car chase scene with the godawful product placement for Nokia. That scene was pretty cool in the trailer, but should have stayed there. It was dire in the actual film. I can't beleive they cut the Rura Penthe bit for that.
    Cadet-to-captain. Yes, I'll say it, it was entirely ridiculous. But I also don't give the slightest frak :D And it was made a fraction more realistic in the film by it being Pike who promotes him initially, after he witnessed his father's triumph on the Kelvin.
  2. waynehead

    waynehead Ensign Red Shirt

    Dec 2, 2007
    It's a thin line and I'm happy to be proven wrong.

    I wouldn't use the phrase "chosen few" to describe trekkies.

    I would love it if Star Trek were as popular and well-received as Star Wars, or the LOTR.

    But I don't think popularity is worth sacrificing the essence of what makes "trek" trek. Star trek should have a message. It should be forward thinking and ultimately uplifting/positive. It should teach us a moral lesson and at the same time show us how we can improve ourselves even more. It is, in essence, a morality tale cast in the future.

    This new movie does none of these things. It fails the "trek" litmus test. It's just another hollywood blockbuster sans message and sans soul. It is a disgrace.
  3. Candlelight

    Candlelight Admiral Admiral

    Apr 12, 2000
    New Zealand
    A review from a Kiwi perspective (spoilers aplenty so watch your step)

    Right. Canon gets majorly fucked over so if you are a huge die hard fan of the original series then don't go. Seriously. You will be bitching all the way through.

    Well possibly.

    The opening sequence is full on and deadly. Reminiscent of the pilot episode of DS9. Nero isn't the charismatic villain and it's a great change of pace. The production design leaves something to be desired as it's clear they use a brewery or factory to film the engineering scenes. And if they didn't it's a piss-poor job at being "futuristic".

    You know people are gonna cark it so it does lose the tension unfortunately, but the action is well shot despite very shaky camera work and constant lens flares. Jennifer Morrison hardly has any screen time which is sad as I like her in House, but what she does do is pretty good.

    Jumping ahead, sadly the shot from the trailer of Baby-Spock isn't here (neither is any shot from the teaser trailer) but Spock-Junior getting into a fight with "Vulcan bullies" was pretty funny. Chris Pine does a good job, but he's no Kirk. Karl Urban (who stole the show in my completely Kiwi-biased opinion) was believeable as McCoy, Quinto was outstanding as Spock and Chekov was great as Chekov. Yeah sorry, forgot his name. The rest didn't really shine for me. Scotty is in it for ten minutes. Boo. I'm a Simon Pegg fan and I really wished he'd been in it more, although clearly he was being reserved for the comic relief.

    Well, anyone not named Spock and Kirk were comic relief. Uhura is horribly miscast. Brought in for the beauty but nothing like the elegance of Nichelle Nichols, which the role really screamed out for. Rachel Nichols has lovely boobies though, which you all see about 40' in.

    Oh and Bruce Greenwood is great as always. He's been typecast as the leader-figure-who-gets-munted but he is very good. Pity he's not in it for more, but as always it's the sexy 20-somethings that we have to follow.

    Engineer Olson, the movie's only true redshirt, is wearing a redshirt. Loved it.

    More shaky camera and lens flares later, and we get to the biggest canon-fuck to date - Vulcan. Wheen you watch it's a shock, really is. You know it's coming but it still hurts. Enterprise (complete with the aforementioned brewery) is now the only ship in the quadrant and suddenly the flagship is taken over by cadets for some reason (where are all the officers, it's the maiden voyage for feck's sake) but luckily we aren't talking about DS9's "Valiant" here, so all is good.

    The movie then loses it's way a little bit, Kirk gets thrown off the ship to an ice planet which is apparently closer to Vulcan than we are to our moon. A couple of CGI monsters later and we finally get to see Old-Spice, er Spock. I have to say, as great as it is to see him, he really wasn't necessary. He didn't need to come back and explain everything (although the date he gives for the destruction of Romulus - assuming the Enterprise is still launched in 2245 - puts it slap bang in the middle of Voyager's 4th/DS9's 6th season/Insurrection, and clearly Romulus is still around by the time Nemesis appears). But then, this is JJ, so the rule book is out the window. He does have a great voice. Still sends a chill through your spine when he speaks.

    The climax is alright but still the same old "gotta get on the alien ship and stop the bad guy complete with fist fight etc". Why only Spock was able to knock out the drill is anyone's guess. I seem to recall a fleet of shuttle's on Earth which *could* have been armed with phasers...?

    The ending does leave a 'yeah we reset everything so get used to it' feel to it, and it doesn't matter. Put your brain in neutral, leave the canon book in the glove box, "buckle up" and enjoy.

    Not everyone will enjoy this. Really, take everything with a grain of salt. Things don't work as they used to. Some things are frustrating (what Uhura does to Spock on the transporter pad made everyone's jaw drop in the cinema) and some stuff has too much humour (the hands scene - you'll know it when you see it - is funny at the time but leaves a funny taste in your mouth afterwards).

    7/10. I would see it again, but will probably wait for DVD.
    Last edited: May 7, 2009
  4. sto vo kor

    sto vo kor Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Jan 30, 2002
    couldn't have put it better myself, but what about that little alien who was Scotty's friend. I didn't like that, a bit too Star Wars ish
  5. Wesser

    Wesser Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

    Dec 20, 2006
    Well I guess one can hope that the essence of Trek, as you (correctly) describe here, might be recaptured in a future TV incarnation. Where there is time to delve into character studies and situational drama from week to week. Look at the appeal of shows like BSG, or The Shield. To have writers that could use this kind of formula in a new series would be awesome, but it might be kind of difficult in a big budget 2 hour and 7 minute "summer blockbuster". I'm hoping this is a spring board to Trek's future, unlike Berman's plywood w/ no springs, board that was DS9, Voy, and Ent.
  6. Eddie Roth

    Eddie Roth Commodore Commodore

    May 16, 2001
    I don't get why that qualifies as a "Jump the Shark" moment, frankly. In fact, that is a huge part of why this is an exciting new direction. THAT has certainly never been there before, and it changes the balance of this universe, of these characters. Stuff like that opens up new possibilities for an aging franchise, not keeping the status quo for the 700th time.
    It's a symbolic act to say: No, this time you're not getting the same old same old from us. Which is good. Also, it just plain works in the context of this story. This is an event that puts Spock into sharp focus, and the delicate balance between his Vulcan and Human sides, especially since he loses his mother as well - who represents the human side of him. Now he has a legacy to uphold. As Sarek says in what I find to be one of the most beautiful moments of the film "You will always be a child of two worlds, and I am grateful for that" or something to that effect, which is his Vulcan way of saying how much he grieves for Amanda and how much comfort it gives him that their child has the human element he so loved in her - as he admits, quite touchingly, thank you Ben Cross!- lives on in Spock.
    If, shall we say, the death of Spock was an event that fans can live with, and effectively welcome as one integral part of TWOK's success, so can this. And like that event in 1982, it made the film one of consequence (if not long-lasting ones, mind you) which TV series don't do, but movies do.

    About the other thing, the different bridge designs etc: How is it - and this annoys me to no end - that some of you guys just can't turn off that fucking fanboy attitude for TWO HOURS IN A MOVIE THEATER, that notion that everything we saw in a television series from the 1960s (!) is some sort of official recording sent back from the future where, if in another "recording", the slightest detail is changed, that change must either be explained at length and to your satisfaction or else be discarded as an historical falsification??? Come on! It's no that hard to accept that there are simply different production values today as they were 40 years ago. More money, a different sense of style... Try the idea for a change that maybe the ship always looked like that, but the resolution on your TV was too low to pick up on all the detail. Or some other bullshit that makes you accept that there are always different artistic versions representing the same thing.... and yes, even in Star Trek. How do you explain that uniforms in Star Trek change with every series, five times in eleven movies? And that they all look completely different from one another. Would a real military organization stage such a fashion show every other year? Why did the Enterprise bridge look completely different between TVH, TFF and TUC? Same ship, three completely different designs in as many films. Did you lie awake at night coming up with a "canon" way to explain that? No, I guess not. So why this time?
  7. M'Sharak

    M'Sharak Definitely Herbert. Maybe. Moderator

    Aug 22, 2002
    Terra Inlandia
    Re: A review from a Kiwi perspective (spoilers aplenty so watch your s

    Merging this with the grading and discussion thread. Please hold on firmly to the safety bar...
  8. empty

    empty Captain Captain

    Apr 12, 2005
    I went into this movie largely unspoilered, and with huge expectations, and they were easily fulfilled.

    A cool, riveting, true, epochal, funny, beautiful, emotional and perfectly awesome movie.

    Seriously the best film I have seen in a movie theatre so far.

    I could have watched this film at age 6, at age 15, and at age 35 and I would have had the same reaction; immense excitement.

    I'm thrilled and will watch it again early next week.
  9. FlyingLemons

    FlyingLemons Vice Admiral Admiral

    Apr 7, 2009
    Los Angeles
    Re: A review from a Kiwi perspective (spoilers aplenty so watch your s

    I'm sure the computer on board the Jellyfish says 2387 was the date where it came back from, or I could have heard 2378 wrong...
  10. BorgPhil

    BorgPhil Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Jan 5, 2009
    Brilliant film.

    Pike in the wheelchair was a very nice nod at the end.

    The whole Kelvin segement blew me away, very emotional.

    Canon is definitely stretched in parts, though not to impossible lengths - the knowledge of Romulans certainly didn't seem to tie into what we'd expect - but who knows what would have followed the Narada-Kelvin encounter.
  11. Admiral Bear

    Admiral Bear Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Mar 23, 2005
    Permanent away mission with the fairies
    What I did and didn't like at Star Trek

    I saw Star Trek today at a late morning showing. Not much atmosphere in the cinema. . me and 15 other people.

    I won't review the film as such, as if you take most of what has been written in the media and mash it all together, you get a fairly accurate appraisal.

    This is just a list of what I felt was good and what was bad, so possible spoilers below.


    The opening sequence with the Kelvin and the Narada. The battle was the best part of the film, and I got a bit emotional seeing Kirk Sr going to his death in order to save his wife, his unborn child and his crew. Stunning visual effects accompanied by an unexpected but appropriate solemn operatic/choral score.

    Karl Urban as McCoy. Briliant. Nailed the part. Totally and utterly nailed it.

    The opening money shot of the Enterprise in space.

    John Cho and Anton Yelchin as Sulu and Chekov were excellent, although Yelchin wasn't used much past comedy value.

    Good fight scenes, especially in the bar, and on the Narada's sky platform.

    Leonard Nimoy was legendary as Spock, and somewhat showed up Quinto who played the role a little too robotically and dispassionately.

    2 hours flew by. After the excellent opening, I expected the film to sag in the middle, but it never really did.


    ADHD editing, especially during battle scenes, made it impossible to focus on anything for large parts of the film.

    Early on in the film, the repeated use of "3 years later" to jump huge chunks of time and backstory out of Kirk's younger years and his progression through the Academy. I realise there's only so much you can fit in 2 hours, but this bothered me big time.

    Spock and Uhura kissing each other. .NOOOOOOOOOOOOO! Just plain wrong. I don't care this is all happening in an alternate timeline. I can see a Kirk-Uhura-Spock love triangle in the sequel. NOOOOOOOOOOO! :klingon:

    Simon Pegg. Sorry, Simon. I don't know if was you or the script not helping you out, but you almost killed the film. If Pegg had ever seen TOS, he'd have known Scotty was never an attention seeking egotist. I think Pegg's performance suffered a little from over egging the pudding, suggesting he was perhaps enjoying himself a bit too much, something which could be explained by some of his media interview comments.

    Nero's motivation was barely explained, while his character started to remind me of Shinzon, and I was getting bad Nemesis flashbacks. We got 5 seconds of Nimoy telling Kirk about the destruction of Romulus in order to give us Nero's motivation for destroying Vulcan. Pretty thin. And as with Nemesis, I find it impossible that in the original Trek timeline, the Romulan empire with its famous Tal Shiar security service, would've allowed some renegade nutter to build a huge ship and get access to black hole creating chemicals so he could destroy planets.
  12. Praetorian

    Praetorian Captain Captain

    Jan 2, 2002
    Re: What I did and didn't like at Star Trek

    Regarding Nero's motivation... It was simply a very misdirected revenge. He blammed the Federation for not being fast enough to help his planet (as if the UFP *had* to help Romulus...). His ship was simply a mining ship, but overpowered since it was from 130 years or so in the future. The black hole technology was from Spock's ship. Remember Nero was pulled into the past unwillingly. However I wonder why he waited 25 years roaming around in space, in the hopes of getting his hands on Spock and his blackhole technology to execute his irrational vengeance..instead of going to Romulus and help them prepare for the upcomming Super Nova. Or even use the black hole technology for that purpose instead...
  13. Bob The Skutter

    Bob The Skutter Complete Arse Cleft Premium Member

    Jul 12, 2001
    Bob The Skutter
    Me and my two friends both really enjoyed it. I'm planning on seeing it again this weekend. Right now I'd probably put it somewhere between Above Average, and Excellent.
  14. DiSiLLUSiON

    DiSiLLUSiON Commodore Commodore

    Apr 7, 2004
    The Netherlands
    Re: What I did and didn't like at Star Trek

    I don't agree that his revenge was misdirected. Spock *promised* him that his family would be save, Spock *promised* him that his planet would not be in danger. Spock failed.

    All right, it's a bit much to promise, and Spock would have known that. But if Nero didn't believe in Spock and the Federation that much, he would probably at least get his family off the planet to keep them save.

    He believed in Spock, and Spock failed. His entire family now lie dead at his feet for believing in Spock and the Federation. Of course he blames them, it's easier then to blame himself.

    On another note: I don't think the editing was too fast paced. To be completely honest, I do have ADHD so I tend to be biased :D but I expected something extreme, which it wasn't. The battles were fast, but not too fast to follow. They were exhilarating, but not so much that the rest fell flat.
  15. Michael

    Michael Le modérateur de fanart Moderator

    Jul 10, 2007
    Aloha Quadrant
    Re: What I did and didn't like at Star Trek

    No offense, Admiral Bear, but why do so many people think their review of the movie warrants an own thread? If this was the case then we'd have hundreds of review threads cluttering up the forum page.

    Join the "That's me!" Avatar Week and show us who you are.
  16. Admiral Bear

    Admiral Bear Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Mar 23, 2005
    Permanent away mission with the fairies
    Re: What I did and didn't like at Star Trek

    I know what you're saying, but when there are so many other threads, it can be difficult to find the most appropriate one to post in without going off topic to what has most recently been posted.

    As was said by Praetorian, I remember sitting in the film wondering why it took 25 years for Spock to turn up in the same time frame as Nero, when both ships went back in time together.
  17. SalvorHardin

    SalvorHardin Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Mar 6, 2008
    Star's End
    Re: What I did and didn't like at Star Trek

    1. his ship wasn't a simple mining ship. It was a mining ship turned into a superweapon thanks to it being refitided with Romulan adapted Borg technology.

    Info from the Countdown comics.

    2. He wasn't just roaming 25 years in space. After the Kelvin incident he was captured by Klingons and spent quite some time in Rura Penthe from where he later escaped.

    This plot was cut in the editing room

    3. As for Nero...I suppose one can be expected to be half mad and irrational when one sees child, wife, entire planet destroyed and spends a few years in a Klingon prison
  18. DiSiLLUSiON

    DiSiLLUSiON Commodore Commodore

    Apr 7, 2004
    The Netherlands
    Re: What I did and didn't like at Star Trek

    To be honest, of course the reviews warrant their own threads! I mean, these are the people the movie is made for, after all. People who have a right to be excited, and a right to be heard. This forum is there exclusively to discuss the movie, right? So it's not as if this is the wrong forum... Besides, if there's nothing to add to a certain thread, it'll filter down within minutes anyway and nobody will ever see it again, so that's no problem, I'd think...

    However, if there's supposed to be a central review thread, it hasn't been made clear. Do you perhaps have a link?
  19. SalvorHardin

    SalvorHardin Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Mar 6, 2008
    Star's End
    Re: What I did and didn't like at Star Trek

    They didn't exactly go together.
    At the end of Countdown the Narada gets sucked in first and the Jellyfish a little later.
    I suppose black hole time displacement works in mysterious, unpredictable ways
  20. SalvorHardin

    SalvorHardin Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Mar 6, 2008
    Star's End
    Re: What I did and didn't like at Star Trek

    It's the first sticky post of the forum...Not exactly hidden