the needs of the many! health care

[thestrangequark]

No. The USA has the best health care and finest doctors in the world and it's not even close. I do agree we need to reign in cost and increase availability though.

No, it doesn't.

Keep dreaming.

I don't need to dream up evidence, I've linked it. Do you have any to support your claims?

Oh, and I'm sorry about us scum of the earth folks being too morally deficient to pay for YOUR health care.

You already do pay for the uninsured, through your insurance. You're just being screwed a lot more than you would be if you were paying into a public system.

What will you do if you become too sick to be insured? You do know that insurance companies can drop you if you become ill, even if you've been paying your premiums on time, don't you?

 

[TheLonelySquire]

Because the greatest and the least need to be cared for equally.

I agree with you 100% Michael. I just beileve you don't steal from one person to give to another and consider it moral.

How is it stealing?

Do you not believe the people who make more money will have to pay for those who make less?

 

[Michael Chris]

I agree with you 100% Michael. I just beileve you don't steal from one person to give to another and consider it moral.

How is it stealing?

Do you not believe the people who make more money will have to pay for those who make less?

I absolutely believe that, yes.

 

[TheGodBen]

Yep, that's why most everyone wants to live here.

An excellently made point, lets explore it by reviewing the statistics on which countries account for the largest amount of immigration to the United States.

1. Mexico: 175,900/year
2. China: 50,900/year
3. Philippines: 47,800/year
4. India: 59,300/year
5. Vietnam: 33,700/year
6. Cuba: 14,800/year
7. El Salvador: 33,500/year
8. Dominican Republic: 24,900/year

All wealthy first world nations with booming economies and no history of poverty or oppression. All of those people must be moving to the United States because it is a magical place if the fantastic quality of these countries is anything to go by. Now lets see who is next on the list.

9. Canada 24,200/year

Not surprising really, considering how small the border between the US and Canada is, and how well guarded that border is. Mounties are very adept at preventing people from leaving Canada.

What is not surprising about that list is the lack of any horrible European nations, because our whole continent is so backwards we have yet to develop technologies which will allow us to cross the ocean. Us poor souls sit in our animal-skin huts and lament the fact that we were not lucky enough to be born American, for then we would truly be free from the horrors of socialised healthcare. Perhaps some day we will invent some form of long ship which will allow a brave few to traverse the dangers of the Atlantic, but until that day we can only dream of a time when we will be denied a necessary medical procedure because we are too poor to afford insurance.

Please, keep us in your prayers.

 

[TheLonelySquire]

How is it stealing?

Do you not believe the people who make more money will have to pay for those who make less?

I absolutely believe that, yes.

Good. If you are an able-bodied adult then you are stealing from that person who is paying for you.

 

[TheLonelySquire]

Yep, that's why most everyone wants to live here.

An excellently made point, lets explore it by reviewing the statistics on which countries account for the largest amount of immigration to the United States.

1. Mexico: 175,900/year
2. China: 50,900/year
3. Philippines: 47,800/year
4. India: 59,300/year
5. Vietnam: 33,700/year
6. Cuba: 14,800/year
7. El Salvador: 33,500/year
8. Dominican Republic: 24,900/year

All wealthy first world nations with booming economies and no history of poverty or oppression. All of those people must be moving to the United States because it is a magical place if the fantastic quality of these countries is anything to go by. Now lets see who is next on the list.

9. Canada 24,200/year

Not surprising really, considering how small the border between the US and Canada is, and how well guarded that border is. Mounties are very adept at preventing people from leaving Canada.

What is not surprising about that list is the lack of any horrible European nations, because our whole continent is so backwards we have yet to develop technologies which will allow us to cross the ocean. Us poor souls sit in our animal-skin huts and lament the fact that we were not lucky enough to be born American, for then we would truly be free from the horrors of socialised healthcare. Perhaps some day we will invent some form of long ship which will allow a brave few to traverse the dangers of the Atlantic, but until that day we can only dream of a time when we will be denied a necessary medical procedure because we are too poor to afford insurance.

Please, keep us in your prayers.

I've been all over europe. The best thing about it is landing in New York and hearing "Welcome to the United States of America"

 

[RyanKCR]

Matthew 25:34-46

34 Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, 36 I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.’ 37 Then the righteous will answer him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? 38 And when did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? 39 And when did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’ 40 And the King will answer them, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.’

41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.’ 44 Then they also will answer, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to you?’ 45 Then he will answer them, saying, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’ 46 And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

Let me ask you if I suddenly lost all my ability to pay for my medical bills would Christ want you to help me out in any way you could or would He want you to set up a government program that would take money from the most wealthy and pay for me and you not have to do a thing since the government is taking care of it?

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

You do know that insurance companies can drop you if you become ill, even if you've been paying your premiums on time, don't you?

What about employer-provided insurance? Can they do that too?

 

[TheLonelySquire]

Matthew 25:34-46

34 Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, 36 I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.’ 37 Then the righteous will answer him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? 38 And when did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? 39 And when did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’ 40 And the King will answer them, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.’

41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.’ 44 Then they also will answer, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to you?’ 45 Then he will answer them, saying, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’ 46 And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

Let me ask you if I suddenly lost all my ability to pay for my medical bills would Christ want you to help me out in any way you could or would He want you to set up a government program that would take money from the most wealthy and pay for me and you not have to do a thing since the government is taking care of it?

Thank you for your post Ryan. I hope you're feeling well, by the way.

I believe Jesus would want us to give from our hearts willingly, not have the government manage a plan that is more designed to ensure long term political power than helping people.

 

[thestrangequark]

I've been all over europe. The best thing about it is landing in New York and hearing "Welcome to the United States of America"

Great job with the facts there. Now I can take your arguments seriously!

You do know that insurance companies can drop you if you become ill, even if you've been paying your premiums on time, don't you?

What about employer-provided insurance? Can they do that too?

I honestly don't know, but I can research it. I do know that losing one's job and therefore one's employer's insurance is always a possibility (and one of the reasons so many people are losing their insurance right now).

 

[Michael Chris]

Do you not believe the people who make more money will have to pay for those who make less?

I absolutely believe that, yes.

Good. If you are an able-bodied adult then you are stealing from that person who is paying for you.

How and why am I stealing from the government?

Let me ask you if I suddenly lost all my ability to pay for my medical bills would Christ want you to help me out in any way you could or would He want you to set up a government program that would take money from the most wealthy and pay for me and you not have to do a thing since the government is taking care of it?

They are not mutually exclusive. If a way that I can help is setting up such a program, and I do not do it then I am not doing all I can.

 

[TheLonelySquire]

I absolutely believe that, yes.

Good. If you are an able-bodied adult then you are stealing from that person who is paying for you.

How and why am I stealing from the government?

Let me ask you if I suddenly lost all my ability to pay for my medical bills would Christ want you to help me out in any way you could or would He want you to set up a government program that would take money from the most wealthy and pay for me and you not have to do a thing since the government is taking care of it?

They are not mutually exclusive. If a way that I can help is setting up such a program, and I do not do it then I am not doing all I can.

You're stealing from your fellow man if you are able to work and support yourself. Again Michael, health care need to be made affordable and available. Not free unless you're a child or disabled.

 

[Michael Chris]

You're stealing from your fellow man if you are able to work and support yourself.

How? It was taken through the legal and Jesus endorsed action of taxation.

Again Michael, health care need to be made affordable and available. Not free unless you're a child or disabled.

Why? I don't think it is practical, but if it could be done why not?

 

[thestrangequark]

I've been all over europe. The best thing about it is landing in New York and hearing "Welcome to the United States of America"

Great job with the facts there. Now I can take your arguments seriously!

You do know that insurance companies can drop you if you become ill, even if you've been paying your premiums on time, don't you?

What about employer-provided insurance? Can they do that too?

I honestly don't know, but I can research it. I do know that losing one's job and therefore one's employer's insurance is always a possibility (and one of the reasons so many people are losing their insurance right now).

As far as I can tell from limited research this statement applies to individual policies. Here is some reading.

 

[TheGodBen]

I've been all over europe. The best thing about it is landing in New York and hearing "Welcome to the United States of America"

I've been to several countries in Europe myself, and you know what the best part was? Rushing back to that hotel in Manchester and having really great sex. But that's just a personal experience, much like your own.

 

[Middle Earther]

Good. If you are an able-bodied adult then you are stealing from that person who is paying for you.

How and why am I stealing from the government?

Let me ask you if I suddenly lost all my ability to pay for my medical bills would Christ want you to help me out in any way you could or would He want you to set up a government program that would take money from the most wealthy and pay for me and you not have to do a thing since the government is taking care of it?

They are not mutually exclusive. If a way that I can help is setting up such a program, and I do not do it then I am not doing all I can.

You're stealing from your fellow man if you are able to work and support yourself. Again Michael, health care need to be made affordable and available. Not free unless you're a child or disabled.

It's amazing - UHC works everywhere, is getting better results and you're still playing the same tune. Even when it's backed up.

 

[Middle Earther]

I've been all over europe. The best thing about it is landing in New York and hearing "Welcome to the United States of America"

Great job with the facts there. Now I can take your arguments seriously!

You do know that insurance companies can drop you if you become ill, even if you've been paying your premiums on time, don't you?

What about employer-provided insurance? Can they do that too?

I honestly don't know, but I can research it. I do know that losing one's job and therefore one's employer's insurance is always a possibility (and one of the reasons so many people are losing their insurance right now).

I strongly encourage you to not debate with this guy any longer - Just remember - the majority of the people of the US have voted against his kind of thinking. Health care reform will go through. Eventually, UHC will happen even in the US (although that will be later on.)

 

[Locutus of Bored]

I've been all over europe. The best thing about it is landing in New York and hearing "Welcome to the United States of America"

In topic after topic in Miscellaneous and elsewhere people consistently shoot down every one of your poorly constructed arguments with logical points supported by links to actual facts. You always sidestep having to actually address those responses with facts of your own by making a snide, bigoted, or nationalistic remark instead.

You have absolutely no interest in carrying on a real debate with anyone, and simply look to push people's buttons with rude comments whenever they challenge you with facts. That is textbook trolling. The rules are set up in such a way to make it very difficult to deal with trolls like yourself, which is fortunate for you, so I would suggest to the membership at large that we simply ignore his weak excuses for what passes for debate until he decides to improve upon them - though I wouldn't hold your breath.

I'm as guilty of responding to his brand of "discussion" as anyone else, and I realize that simply letting his comments slide is not easy, but it's also the easiest way to avoid letting him hijack any semblance of real debate on these types of issues.

 

[TheLonelySquire]

You're stealing from your fellow man if you are able to work and support yourself.

How? It was taken through the legal and Jesus endorsed action of taxation.

Again Michael, health care need to be made affordable and available. Not free unless you're a child or disabled.

Why? I don't think it is practical, but if it could be done why not?

Sure, I'd agree with you there. Show me how health care can be given free to all people without some having to pay for others.

 

[TheLonelySquire]

I've been all over europe. The best thing about it is landing in New York and hearing "Welcome to the United States of America"

Great job with the facts there. Now I can take your arguments seriously!

What about employer-provided insurance? Can they do that too?

I honestly don't know, but I can research it. I do know that losing one's job and therefore one's employer's insurance is always a possibility (and one of the reasons so many people are losing their insurance right now).

I strongly encourage you to not debate with this guy any longer - Just remember - the majority of the people of the US have voted against his kind of thinking. Health care reform will go through. Eventually, UHC will happen even in the US (although that will be later on.)

So who's not for health care reform? We need portability, open markets in all states, tort reform, and a lower prescription price structure.

It's classic that people trust the government to actually administer a health care plan though. Hmm, social security...broke, medicare and medicaid...broke, postal system...BROKE...

I agree there will be SOMETHING passed. We do need to protect and insure the 20 million criminals currently soaking off the system. We should give them houses too! They are after all a key voting block.