The most disappointing Trek Movie..

[los2188]

TFF probably was dissapointing back in the day, especially considering it came off after a consistent array of entertaining Trek films that met the set standards. But I can accept as being the odd child, it has its own charm and in a lot of ways is like TOS at its cheesiest, but with heart to go along with it (another TOS staple).

Insurrection is dissapointing still, because TNG should've had a more challenging story than this, and if the problem really was the Dominion War, just take the story and set it before the thing, or afterwards, so it could bring back the spirit of the TNG galaxy pre-DS9 (in sort, a sequel to DS9 that explored a post-Dominion War space). As is, though, its an OK story that just never belonged to the big screen. Its entertaining enough, but its also forgettable a lot of the time, and thats not good, either. So... Its so-so.

Nemesis, contrary to many, I like. Hell, I believe the first two thirds of the film are every bit as good as The Future Begins (my title for Trek XI), if not slightly better because of the morality in-search that Picard and Data go through the film. Too bad they didn't make the last third of the picture as good. Oh, and the deleted scenes shouldn't have been deleted. At least, for the most part.

All in all, I really do believe that there is only one dissapointing Trek film, in how it continues to dissapoint and still offers nothing valuable or interesting to the viewer when watching it, and every time makes one think What If. And the film that does that is, Generations.

And its not just the mishandling and ultimate insult of a death for James T. Kirk that results to this conclusion. No. Its the fact that up until then, the movie makes a total mockery of TNG and its characters. Sure, it sounds great to continue the emotion chip storyline began in season four with Brothers and continued with the Descent two-parter, and to feature the Duras Sisters aboard a TUC battle cruiser. But the film handles even those fan-like moments with great ineptitude. Stewart and Spiner try to salvage the situation but fail, and Shatner is out of his element. The destruction of Ent-D lacks any emotion, as the original's destruction and even Ent-C generated when those ships met their ultimate fate, and could Malcom McDowell have ever been misused more?

Ah well, too much time complaining about this dreck. A truly awful film that doesn't any test, let alone that of time, and thus deserves to be bitched about forever.

The level of vitriol that Generations gets consistently amazes me. A truly awful film, really? I think even professional reviews that weren't very enthusiastic about it would give it like a mediocre two-star review or something. I only see Star Trek fans refer to it as awful, which leads me to believe it's not an issue of quality, but a dislike of certain elements(such as Kirk's death).

I actually agree with you. I didn't think Generations was a bad movie at all. I mean back then and now it has me all the way until Picard goes into the Nexus. To me from that point, everything after that made very little common sense and was a stretch. I wouldn't have an issue with Kirk dying, but it seemed so meaningless. In one variation that I read about one plan was to have Picard command the saucer section and Kirk to command the battle bridge. To me, that's much bigger and meaningful then Kirk going back in time with Picard to defeat one man when Picard could have done it in so many different ways. With that being sad, I still don't think the movie was bad by any stretch and it seems as if a lot of non-trekkers agree.

 

[sonak]

Emperor-Tiberius:

well, I'd argue it's theme is probably about the nature of mortality and the way we react to it. Picard kind of sums that up in that scene with Riker at the end.

However, even if I'm wrong, and there were no theme, is that the defining element of whether a movie works or not? I'm not sure "Ghostbusters" has a theme either, but it's funny and entertaining.

To me, "Generations" is just a competently done action movie. It's decent, not great, but definitely not deserving of the hatred thrown its way.

 

[los2188]

It's pretty common knowledge that the writers openly admit that All good things....was a superior effort on their part, but I certainly don't think that All good things....would have worked on the big screen. So with that being said do you think All good things...should have been the feature movie, or Generations?

 

[sonak]

It's pretty common knowledge that the writers openly admit that All good things....was a superior effort on their part, but I certainly don't think that All good things....would have worked on the big screen. So with that being said do you think All good things...should have been the feature movie, or Generations?

I think AGT was too obviously designed as a series finale, and too dependent on show continuity and background to work as a movie.

 

[los2188]

It's pretty common knowledge that the writers openly admit that All good things....was a superior effort on their part, but I certainly don't think that All good things....would have worked on the big screen. So with that being said do you think All good things...should have been the feature movie, or Generations?

I think AGT was too obviously designed as a series finale, and too dependent on show continuity and background to work as a movie.

I have a question for you, but I think I'm going to start a new thread about it. If you could pick one episode of TNG to be the first feature length film of the TNG cast, what would it be? Or would you stick with Generations?

 

[Emperor-Tiberius]

All Good Things was the superior effort, not only because of continuity - which GEN really did rely on, otherwise one would be clueless regarding the Duras sisters and Data's emotion chip story, or for that matter who the hell Data is - but because it was a story that generated emotion and tied it with science to the maximum effect.

Its rather telling that these two stories were written concurrently. One being a script filled with demands from everyone - thus allowing little effort for creativity - and one given a free reign, seemingly, as the story itself produced didn't have any pre-determined must-have's like GEN did.

To be blunt, this is a thread about which Trek remains dissapointing. Even if I do despise GEN, thats beside the point. The point is, however, that it is dissapointing still, thanks to its misuse of the TNG crew, particularly Data, its catastrophical plot device known as Nexus, and Kirk's presence. And try telling me none of those points aren't the target of controversy when this movie is concerned.

 

[JarodRussell]

Nemesis was very disappointing. It was the LAST TNG movie. It was advertised as rounding the entire movie franchise up, that the villain would be even better than Khan, it was supposed to be an epic Romulan story, and I still remember that a "brilliant drydock scene" was promised (which is when I expected that the movie's visuals and soundtrack would be on The Motion Picture's level, especially with Jerry Goldsmith doing the soundtrack).

None of that came true. The villain was a pussy wimp, big "Romulan story" focused on the Romulan half brothers that had never ever been seen before, no words lost about the Reunification or Spock, nothing, the visuals were boring, the music was pretty dull, and it did nothing to bring the movie franchise full circle. The characters' decisions came out of nowhere. Suddenly, Troi and Riker are married. Woohoo. It would have been better if the film actually led up to it, instead of starting the movie with it. Everyone splits up to go somewhere else, but in the end, we still end up with Picard on the Enterprise. Data dies, but then doesn't really. The Enterprise is destroyed but then repaired. It's like the movie didn't come to terms with itself at all. "The Final Journey" of something has to be shaped up differently than that, in my opinion.

 

[sonak]

All Good Things was the superior effort, not only because of continuity - which GEN really did rely on, otherwise one would be clueless regarding the Duras sisters and Data's emotion chip story, or for that matter who the hell Data is - but because it was a story that generated emotion and tied it with science to the maximum effect.

Its rather telling that these two stories were written concurrently. One being a script filled with demands from everyone - thus allowing little effort for creativity - and one given a free reign, seemingly, as the story itself produced didn't have any pre-determined must-have's like GEN did.

To be blunt, this is a thread about which Trek remains dissapointing. Even if I do despise GEN, thats beside the point. The point is, however, that it is dissapointing still, thanks to its misuse of the TNG crew, particularly Data, its catastrophical plot device known as Nexus, and Kirk's presence. And try telling me none of those points aren't the target of controversy when this movie is concerned.

why do folks harp so much on the Nexus as a plot device? It's contrived sure, but no more so than the Genesis Device, or red matter, etc. To me, Trek's more space fantasy than hard sci-fi anyway, so the Nexus didn't bother me too much. To each their own, though.

 

[Mark 2000]

why do folks harp so much on the Nexus as a plot device? It's contrived sure, but no more so than the Genesis Device, or red matter, etc. To me, Trek's more space fantasy than hard sci-fi anyway, so the Nexus didn't bother me too much. To each their own, though.

Because Genesis is pseudo-scintific and the Nexus is pure magic. It's never explained. I can do anything. It can take you in and put you anywhere and still have a piece of you in it. And even as magical as its abilities are, it's still not used to its fullest implied abilities by picard to fix the situation.

And on top of that, Soran's entire reasoning for evil is pointless. As we saw with Kirk and the explosion in the deflector room Soran really COULD have just flown a ship in. Or floated out in a space suit in its way. Or anything that didn't involve blowing up stars - which wouldn't have had the physical effect it had in the film.

So there you go. One stupid feeds into another stupid and into another. None of it works and that's why its unforgivable.

 

[sonak]

why do folks harp so much on the Nexus as a plot device? It's contrived sure, but no more so than the Genesis Device, or red matter, etc. To me, Trek's more space fantasy than hard sci-fi anyway, so the Nexus didn't bother me too much. To each their own, though.

Because Genesis is pseudo-scintific and the Nexus is pure magic. It's never explained. I can do anything. It can take you in and put you anywhere and still have a piece of you in it. And even as magical as its abilities are, it's still not used to its fullest implied abilities by picard to fix the situation.

And on top of that, Soran's entire reasoning for evil is pointless. As we saw with Kirk and the explosion in the deflector room Soran really COULD have just flown a ship in. Or floated out in a space suit in its way. Or anything that didn't involve blowing up stars - which wouldn't have had the physical effect it had in the film.

So there you go. One stupid feeds into another stupid and into another. None of it works and that's why its unforgivable.

OK, those are pretty good points. They could've at least come up with a pseudo-science explanation for the Nexus.

 

[Grant]

^^Yep those are actually damn good points he made. With Genesis you accept what it supposedly can do and go with it. Nexus like he said is just magic. And YES, YES, YES, Soran could simply have flown into it and not murdered millions. He couldn't figure that out in 70 years?

 

[DeepSpaceWine]

The Motion Picture isn't bad, but it does have a very alien feel in portions. The story is fine, with several interesting elements. It may borrow from "The Changeling", but no one would confuse it with that episode and the probe's missions are different. V'Ger is gathering information to transmit it to the creator and came in an absolutely gigantic package, Nomad was sterilizing whole star system, just a doomsday machine in a small box.

And seriously Sonak, I don't think anyone was bitching about TMP after waiting 10 years for new Star Trek. TMP has the feel of serious/big sci-fi in the '70s (clearly takes a page from 2001). And was it the first tv series to switch to the movies? There may have been some translation questions there.


Generations was decent, if a bit mediocre. Soren and his plot were good, but the Duras Sisters did not seem like a sufficient menace compared to Khan, Kruge, whatshisname in TUC, hell, or even Sybok. Once they picked up Picard & the crew in the ending, they should of held a hearing into the monumental incompetence that let a rustbucket Bird of Prey destroy the flagship of Starfleet. Kirk was ok but his portion was more like an epilogue for the character, to go out being a hero.

I think people were expecting Kirk + TNG= epic, but it was a rather subdued movie, and can understand the expectations: actual experience differential making this movie very disappointing. It didn't seem well thought out. They might've rushed into the movie too fast. TNG ended just months earlier. The script definately needed more time to polish it, but alas, they seemed to be aiming at a Nov/Dec 1994 release instead of a summer 1995 release. So, I can understand why this can be quantitatively the most disappointing.

Oh, and the recycled Bird of Prey explosion for the umteenth time... ugh! Even as a kid I thought how cheap was that?



First Contact, yeah, its version of events did have apocryphal airs. The Borg Queen was fine since they are based on hives and how many insect hives on Earth have no queens? I hated the newer, darker ship. Dark, shades of gray ship, darker lighting, black & gray uniforms with colored undershirts... it all set a tone I didn't care for in Star Trek and it felt contrary to the tone of TNG. And Picard as action hero... in Generations it was ok because it was Picard vs. another old fart, but they tried to make Picard mr. action hero in the other movies.


Nemesis, I think the long litany of complaints about it are widely known. It was such a shameless ripoff of The Wrath of Khan in so many ways. Add in a bastard director who doesn't even know the source material and you get Nemesis. It was the only Star Trek movie of the 10 I couldn't watch more than 10-15 minutes of at a time without being utterly bored out of my mind with the source material. It feels like if it were a tv episode, it would have been shelved for not being of broadcast quality (yes, Threshold, Shades of Grey, the Way to Eden, and so many others have broadcast quality).


2009 Star Trek, I don't even consider real Star Trek. It's like a parallel universe. It doesn't look/feel like Star Trek.


I doubt Wrath of Khan is disappointing (except for those trolling), likewise The Voyage Home, and The Undiscovered Country. First Contact is considered the best/least disappointing TNG era film. I'm glad Search for Spock hasn't made anyone's most-disappointing list because that movie was branded part of the odd end of the even-odd Trek 'curse' even though it grossed almost the same amount as The Wrath of Khan and it was a good movie, just lacking that full epic feel (has destruction of Enterprise, Christopher Lloyd as the Klingon. "B'Gahk! Inform me when the disruptor charge reaches 1.21 jiggawatts!" . Has a less annoying Saavik, the Genesis world is interesting). I'd say its the most underrated Star Trek film.



My pick?

It would be humorous to say The Wrath of Khan. Recently, I thought of how utterly awesome it would be if Harry Mudd took over a starship and engaged in an interesting conniving clash of cunning minds with Kirk. He could even have a crew of space pirates like Khan had the Mad Max extras. Roger Carmel was alive thru late 1986. Take the Wrath of Khan, replace Khan with Mudd and the overt hostilities with more of a game of schemes, deceptions, and maneuvers, and it would have been cool. Imagine a slightly light hearted Wrath of Khan or something a little bit lighter than Search for Spock but not as light in tone as The Voyage Home.


Final Frontier is quite disappointing. It has some interesting elements, some fun scenes, though has plotholes too big to make it rise above mediocre ("Chekhov! Plot a course into that plothole! Quarter-impulse"). Shatner was one issue, the writers strike causing issues was another, the reduced budget was another. I think some people absolutely hate it, feeling it heresy to have what it showed, but there's more than enough in the movie for people of all religious zeal or lack thereof to hate it for. But...


I think Insurrection is the biggest disappointment. It manages to be lamer than Generations, which had at least some interesting elements. Add in the dark ENT-E ship, Worf-whoring ("hey everyone, I'm on vacation from DS9 to be Mr. Klingon in the movie!" That was so blatant and cheap), some lame villains and a lame plot, and it feels like they created a movie more inert than any tv episode. It's like "11:59", only still set in the Star Trek era. "The Omega Glory", as bas as its 4th act is, depicts rogue Starfleet much better than this movie. I am surprised this movie made more money at the box office than Nemesis. They should have grossed about the same.

 

[sonak]

I don't want to quote that whole post, but since one of those points was directed to me, I'll respond:


I know this BBS skews differently on TMP. That said, that movie was NOT well-received, either critically or by much of fandom when it was released. So to say "No one was bitching about it" is simply not the case. The consensus was that it was a disappointment, and that's why TWOK went in a totally different direction, why they had a new writer, and got Roddenberry out of the way for the rest of the movie series, where he had little influence.

Yes, it was a big box office hit, but that was more despite the reaction, than because of it. It was a ten-year wait for new live Trek, so the fans went again and again.

 

[cblmc1296]

I don't want to quote that whole post, but since one of those points was directed to me, I'll respond:


I know this BBS skews differently on TMP. That said, that movie was NOT well-received, either critically or by much of fandom when it was released. So to say "No one was bitching about it" is simply not the case. The consensus was that it was a disappointment, and that's why TWOK went in a totally different direction, why they had a new writer, and got Roddenberry out of the way for the rest of the movie series, where he had little influence.

Yes, it was a big box office hit, but that was more despite the reaction, than because of it. It was a ten-year wait for new live Trek, so the fans went again and again.

In fact, the fans' way of expressing their disappointment by poking fun at TMP almost immediately after it hit the theaters was to refer to it as "Star Trek: The Motionless Picture".

 

[Emperor-Tiberius]

^^Yep those are actually damn good points he made. With Genesis you accept what it supposedly can do and go with it. Nexus like he said is just magic. And YES, YES, YES, Soran could simply have flown into it and not murdered millions. He couldn't figure that out in 70 years?

... (doing my best Rom impersonation) Because there wouldn't have been a movie, then?

 

[KHAAAN]

Search for Spock and Generations because they followed something real good with some much lesser

Very much agreed.

 

[Saquist]

Nemesis and Generations

Definitelly Nemesis...it promised to something different from the look and it all the same..

 

[cline92]

The Final Frontier was the most disappointing in my mind. Too much religion for me...

 

[los2188]

The Final Frontier was the most disappointing in my mind. Too much religion for me...

I think one of the failures with TFF is just the simple fact that they tried to find God. I'm a Christian and all, but my reasons aren't religious based or that I was offended or anything, but let's face it...the use of God in a movie where people are very passionate, yet they don't all agree on God to me is just too much of a dead end type topic. Sometimes, in my opinion it's best to leave some things alone and get back to what has made Trek so great over the years....does any of what I am saying make any sense to anyone? Be brutally honest. Please.

 

[Emperor-Tiberius]

Yeah, but TFF had a great villain. And to quote Nicholas Meyer, ahead of its time as a concept. Sybok really was a well-made villain, despite it all.