The Legacy of Liz Sladen

[jaime]

One in very poor taste.

One in keeping with jokes regularly made by the dear departed Dolly herself, and in keeping with amusing comments made also by the actresses portraying said characters.

Edit (as I had to get dinner out of the oven): What have Dolly and Sarah Jane got in common anyway? Or indeed Dolly and Liz Sladen?
The closest companion I can think of isn’t even screen, it’s either Fitz Kreiner because he had a guitar, or Destrii over in DWM when they went through their cowgirl phase.
If it’s passing from cancer, well, thats more in poor taste frankly, as that shouldn’t define a person — and even assuming thats it, then Jacqueline Hill, Ian Marter, Mary Tamm… and certainly has no relevance to Sarah Jane Smith the character. Theres probably more than aren’t springing to mind, and every one of them is a sad end. Listening to Tom eulogising both Ian and Liz at the end of Scratchman is incredibly emotional in my opinion.
But neither of them were country and western singers or any of the other things people tend to associate with Dolly Parton.
The closest anyone got to Dolly in Who was the American heiress in Silver Nemesis which is hardly a landmark, and crucially wasn’t Dolly Parton.

So what is it about Sarah Jane and Dolly thats so similar?
Height?

I’ll stick to jokes that at least make sense tbh, because at least that punctures the bizarre concept.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

What's similar about Sarah Jane Smith and Dolly Parton? Why, that's easy. They're beloved figures in their respective cultures.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

What's similar about Sarah Jane Smith and Dolly Parton? Why, that's easy. They're beloved figures in their respective cultures.

A love that's shared by multiple generations.

 

[jaime]

Ah.
So Josef Stalin, John F Kennedy, Tupac Shakur, Khomeini…

Totally logical.

Anyway, anyone who thinks about Lis and Sarah Jane could do worse than listen to the audiobook for Scratchman, read by Tom. I think she wrote the part at the end he reads in tribute to her, shortly after the dedication to Ian Marter as a ‘good egg’.

No country music anywhere to be found, and rather a grim if rather good story. It feels oddly in the same rough area as Dirk Gentlys Holistic Detective Agency in places, but is very of its time. It would never have made it this creep* I suspect (and it didn’t of course) but as a memorial to a specific place and time in Who history, and Ian and Lis, it’s rather good.

*to screen. Bloody on screen keys.

 

[Australis]

It's not hard.

Sarah Jane was beloved by generations, smart, compassionate, warm, wise, and helped everyone. Absolutely no physical comparison was intended. Really.

I can't even see how you got there.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

I understood @Australis's praise. It was clear and easy.

Sarah Jane was the first companion I saw. Tom Baker and Elisabeth Sladen had wonderful chemistry. That charming aspect was one of the things I loved most about Doctor Who, at least as much as the science fiction and fantasy elements that had drawn me in to begin with.

 

[jaime]

Sarah Jane is great.
Liz Sladen was great.
Dolly Parton was great.

So were others and so are others.
It’s the simile that makes no sense if that’s all it’s about.
I mean if it’s about ‘massive influence and practically a synonym for’ then Dolly Parton was the Tom Baker of Country Music. And vice versa.

So not really seeing it tbh.
Because even if you don’t like Country, Dolly was on the Radar, and if you don’t like Doctor Who then Sarah really isn’t.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

I've never seen someone so willing to dig this much because of one simple comment of comparison. Yeesh.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

I'm really confused by the comparison of Lis Sladen to Josef Stalin. Stalin never appeared in the Gerry and the Pacemakers movie.

 

[jaime]

I've never seen someone so willing to dig this much because of one simple comment of comparison. Yeesh.

Because on the surface, the immediate comparison is about fucking Cancer.

Which is very very offensive.

And because deflecting away from that silliness with a joke has led to all sorts of nonsensical pinhead dancing.

None of which is in any way convincing.

 

[jaime]

I'm really confused by the comparison of Lis Sladen to Josef Stalin. Stalin never appeared in the Gerry and the Pacemakers movie.

‘Important and loved cultural figures in cultures who have died is a point of logical similarity’
Was an explanation given for the simile.

If true, then logically Stalin is the Sarah Jane of Soviet Communism.

And maybe he did — he spent some time over here, and with that ‘tache can we be sure he didn’t really dig Mersey Beat?
Plus there’s that time he became a great influence on motor racing….

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Because on the surface, the immediate comparison is about fucking Cancer.

Whhhhhhaaaaaa.....?!??!?!

‘Important and loved cultural figures in cultures who have died is a point of logical similarity’
Was an explanation given for the simile.

If true, then logically Stalin is the Sarah Jane of Soviet Communism.

What utterly bizarre assumptions.

 

[jaime]

Whhhhhhaaaaaa.....?!??!?!




What utterly bizarre assumptions.

The second was stated as a post. Nothing bizarre about it, that’s just fact. My Stalin comment was facetiously sending it up. Would have thought the other names on my list in my original post made it obvious.

And my Peri/Leela/Dolly joke was deliberately taking it to another logical point of comparison (all the actors concerned have made jokes about the sexiness of their characters or personas, breasts specifically) and deliberately a bit crass when the *only* other truly logical one is ‘died of cancer’.

Because that way it puts breathing space on the cards for something otherwise offensive and daft. And not the good kind of daft.

And yeah. I do find it offensive. Because cancer rears its ugly head far too often in life frankly, and to start defining people so resolutely by it is tasteless.

Or are we going to get to ‘Sarah Jane is the Bob Marley of Doctor Who’ and think that’s a perfectly sensible thing to utter?
Or is Dolly also like Barbara Wright? Harry Sullivan? Romana?

Anyway.
Remember people for who they are.
And don’t define people by something horrible happening to them.
People are going through that health struggle every day somewhere.
Because they are so much more, especially to people around them.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Yeah, you're not helping yourself there.

 

[JD]

I'm very confused.

 

[jaime]

Yeah, you're not helping yourself there.

Don’t really care.
Said my bit, made it clear.
Haven’t changed position.
And am certain of it.

Someone else having an empathy malfunction is completely beyond my control, someone else failing to grasp what has been laid out repeatedly and friendly, and now not so friendly, is also beyond my control.

And as I also already said to an extent when mentioning Scratchman— theres plenty of ways to remember the character and actress this thread was about.
Respectful ones.
She did plenty of Radio 4 audio things, which are available on services like Audible.

At no point does she break into Jolene though.

 

[JD]

I think I missed something, what was so horrible that someone said?

 

[jaime]

I think I missed something, what was so horrible that someone said?

It wasn’t horrible. It was just a bit… silly and highly likely inadvertently offensive. Inadvertently unpleasant, clumsy. In my opinion. Others vary.
I attempted to make light of it/take the mickey, rather than express my actual opinion, which was apparently in terrible taste or something. At which point I explained my actual problem with the original statement.

Basically a break down of social patterns with geeks.

 

[Candleicious Ghost]

Yeah this thread took an odd turn

 

[jaime]

Yeah this thread took an odd turn

Well, I simply won’t say anymore on it tbh. I tried wrestling it back to where it should be. (And still recommend scratchman)
But best way to do that now is just to keep shtumm.

Lis Sladen is sadly departed, like many companions from the past, and for some people Sarah Jane is their absolute template for the Doctors best friend, and that’s how she should be remembered.