The Janeway debate

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Voyager' started by hux, Jan 11, 2011.

  1. Ghislaine H. B. BRAEME

    Ghislaine H. B. BRAEME Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    You know what, Capt Kathryn Janeway so often cheated with the fate, the death and the chance ‎of the people who undertake, that we shouldn't be so surprised that a last time, although the years have flown and she was promoted to the rank of Vice-Admiral, she did it again, in Endgame (even if this time, she does not come out alive from her adventure).
     
  2. Refuge

    Refuge Vice Admiral Rear Admiral

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    That's what I think cannot be stressed enough. Admiral Janeway died. She did it for a better future for her loved ones. What a woman :)
     
  3. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Nope.

    Admiral Janeway committed suicide, because she eroniosly assumed that time was going to erase her from spacetime eventually, because she still does not understand how time travel works
     
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  4. Refuge

    Refuge Vice Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Oh phooey, Guy. She fell on her sword to save Tuvok from madness. You know I'm right. PLUS we got to see the Borg Queen fall into pieces.
     
  5. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    If Janeway wanted to cure Tuvok, she could have arrived earlier and put him in stasis, or brought the cure with her, which was a healing meld from a medical professional.
     
  6. Refuge

    Refuge Vice Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I can't remember but didn't he need a fellow (related?) Vulcan to save him? I should check on this. However there was Chakotay and Seven to save as well and some other nobodies.

    The journey began by trying to save Tuvok it is fitting it ended that way.
     
  7. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Family is better, but not a necessity.

    Imagine the admiral had brought one of Tuvok's kid's with her, who had the skill set to fix a younger version of their father.
     
  8. Refuge

    Refuge Vice Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I don't think Admiral Janeway felt she had the right to risk taking anyone but herself on the mission, it was fly by the seat of your pants stuff, even with the Doctor finally knowing and Harry. She knew she was going to be giving Tuvok a chance but there were other lives that would be given a second chance as well. Ultimately it meant changing the course of time but in doing so the human being that Admiral Janeway was no longer was a priority. The Admiral at some stage must have know her 'Captain' self was going to carry the timeline. I suppose that is what you meant by her committing suicide? However it wasn't because she wouldn't have known how time travel worked.

    Ultimately both Janeways exploited their 'spare' by the added bonus of crippling the Borg.
     
  9. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    By Suicide, I meant OLD Kathryn handing over her infected body to the Borg for Assimilation, and then saying "I always knew this was going to be a one way trip" which is complete horse hockey, since her ORIGINAL plan had been to sneak/fight her way through the Hub, onward to Earth, barely causing more damage to the Borg infrastructure than necessary to complete a breach, and get home with all hands accounted for.

    The future from which Admiral Janeway came from is destroyed and gone, where everyone who had been alive and safe in that complete universe, as their lives stood in 2404, are rendered non-existent by Kathryn's actions.

    Inexistential?

    The only reason not to bring any one with her, Miral even, is so that anyone from the past doesn't know how she was involved in that Ferengi scandal mentioned in the news report at the beginning of the episode.

    If Janeway was facing jail time, serious jail time, then it's no wonder she tried to runaway and side step the consequences of her actions, becuse that is her nature.
     
  10. Catarina

    Catarina Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    What? Wasn't that just the news anchor moving on to another story?
     
  11. Refuge

    Refuge Vice Admiral Rear Admiral

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    The Ferengi charges were a seperate news bulletine after the story of Voyager's homecoming. I suspect if Janeway was facing jail time it would have been mentioned and exactly what would these imagined charges be for? This scandal? Do tell. Anything like the way the Ferengi messed with Reg's hologram to try and steal Seven's nanoprobes? That would be the only link I can think of regards the Ferengi and Voyager apart from False Profits. Neither are relevant or a reflection on Janeway's nature ;)

    The Admiral's resignation about assuming it was a one way trip was to Harry before she left. It was more to do with what it was going to take to get to Voyager not about some secret agenda to avoid coming back. It was all or nothing and she knew that her shuttle was likely to only make a one way trip.

    KIM: Propulsion's online, plasma flow stable. The device of Korath's, it produces too much tachyo-kinetic energy. It could burn itself out by the time you get where you're going. You wouldn't be able to get back.
    JANEWAY: I always assumed it was a one way trip.
     
  12. Ghislaine H. B. BRAEME

    Ghislaine H. B. BRAEME Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Before learning that Janeway would be promoted Admiral for real, in Star Trek: Nemesis (sorry but for me the alternative future's scene in the introduction of Endgame, never existed as seeing as Adm. Jaenway erased this episode of her life in coming back in the past and in getting killed), it seemed obvious that she would never be sanctioned for her actions in DQ. Indeed, alone in an unknown Quadrant, all her decisions to face the new situation were maybe considered as debatable* (the enlisting of the Maquis in the crew, the Doctor's sentiency which endanger the crew in some cases, her tough on members of the Equinox, Tuvix's episode) but mostly, her actions - even when some of them clearly violated the Prime Directive - would be considered as legitimate by the admirals in Starfleet HQ.

    The military organization is often more severe on behaviors than acts. Besides, just to be convinced, look at the sanctions in the military sphere, in the last 30-40 years: never a commanding officer was punished for having acted in the course of a mission or not, even if he killed civilians or innocent people or created tensions further to his actions, voluntarily or not.
    However, some ranked officers were court-martialed or threatened to be court-martialed if they didn't present their resignation immediately for having adopted a dishonorable behaviour (mainly to have violated the rules of conduct).

    * and she will have to explain them in sort of hearing commissions. There's no escaping to this step and I think that not only she perfectly knew that would have to give some serious explanations but seemed ready to defend some of her decisions concerning her crew management. The question is rather, will Admirals be ready to share her point of view?! And I can tell you that the enlisting of the Val Jean's crew will pose a serious problem, not only in a view of formal decision (her choice to name civilians** to occupy military positions, while she had her people.
    (-> I remind you that even if Chakotay and some others were former Starfleet officers, they resigned their commissions to join the Maquis so officially, they are considered as civilians, trained civilians but not more) bu especially that these people were part of the Maquis, an organization which had very little standing and legitimacy in the eyes of Starfleet's Admirals who might think that by doing so, Janeway deliberately (as seeing as some of the rebels have held important positions on board for 7 years) put the crew ad Voyager in danger.

    By my experience in military discipline, I can tell that even if Janeway will see no threat of serious disciplinary action (like being jailed and/or fired ou pushed to resign, she could get an official reprimand in her personal file - without any consequence for her future in Starfleet, of course but, it would be a remind that all her decisions were not tolerated. That said, I also think that Janeway wouldn't care, convinced of having made the right choices and taking them completely!
     
  13. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Chekov's gun.

    It's another News story, but it could be so early in the investigation that Janeway's crimes are not yet well know to much anyone, which is why this was her last day of freedom before everything fell down.

    So she killed everyone and everything by rolling back the universe because Meuller was closing in...
     
  14. Matthew Raymond

    Matthew Raymond Captain Captain

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    Even if that were true, aren't you basically engaging in precrime? The current timeline Janeway never committed those crimes.
     
  15. Refuge

    Refuge Vice Admiral Rear Admiral

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    There was no smoking... Chekov's gun. The only thing smoking here has some mirrors with it ;)
     
  16. cosmic mouse

    cosmic mouse Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I don't think there was any gun either... I agree there are inside jokes and subtle connections made in many instances, but I don't think this was one of them, but who can say for sure. :shrug:
    @Guy Gardener Have you read anywhere that the writers wrote that news blip in for a reason? Usually when inside digs are the case someone ultimately wants credit for it. ;)
     
  17. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Preinnocence.
     
  18. Matthew Raymond

    Matthew Raymond Captain Captain

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    She's innocent until proven from the same timeline as Future Janeway. ;)
     
  19. Prax

    Prax Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    "I'm relieving you of duty, for crimes...that you are going to commit."

    This clip is hilarious. The LT says "Or rather...you did, sir." Capt. Braxton says "But I haven't done anything!"
    The LT gets a crazy look in his eye and says "...not yet" the. Pulls a pistol out that he just happened to have hidden behind his desk. Lol

    Edit: *LT Ducayne
     
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  20. Matthew Raymond

    Matthew Raymond Captain Captain

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    The charges will get thrown out in a pre-trial hearing for the younger Captain Braxton, but as a result he'll be tested for and diagnosed with temporal psychosis, sent into rehabilitation again, and forced to retire.