Spoilers The game changing Voq theory

[DigificWriter]

The only way the things that the series has shown us and the BtS stuff that people are citing "point towards" the theory being correct is if one draws the conclusion that the theory is correct.

The things people are citing as being evidence of the theory do not empirically point to the theory independently themselves, which is the bulk of the argument I am making.

 

[Tosk]

I guess my question then is, so what?

It's a theory, there are reasons to believe it might be true. The end. ...Until we know for sure.

 

[eschaton]

The only way the things that the series has shown us and the BtS stuff that people are citing "point towards" the theory being correct is if one draws the conclusion that the theory is correct.

The things people are citing as being evidence of the theory do not empirically point to the theory independently themselves, which is the bulk of the argument I am making.

What would you consider empirical evidence to be, short of a "reveal" on the show, or someone in production leaking? I mean, there has to be some middle ground between "irrefutably true" and "not true."

To be pedantic however, it's a hypothesis, not a theory.

 

[guyute03]

*opens up thread again*

*slowly turns around and walks back out of the thread*

*throws laptop out the window*

 

[cooleddie74]

Well. Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit Risan pleasure dust.

 

[Tosk]

To be pedantic however, it's a hypothesis, not a theory.

This isn't science. Hypothesis and theory are synonyms in this arena.

 

[cooleddie74]

Somebody mentioned that Tyler has a scar below his eye in the same location where Burnham injures Voq in "Battle at the Binary Stars." For all we know that is a clue that this is actually Voq and something the creators deliberately slipped into the makeup to let us know that he's not who he seems.

 

[Tuskin38]

The only way the things that the series has shown us and the BtS stuff that people are citing "point towards" the theory being correct is if one draws the conclusion that the theory is correct.

The things people are citing as being evidence of the theory do not empirically point to the theory independently themselves, which is the bulk of the argument I am making.

You need separate proof and evidence.

Theories and can have proof and evidence. Right now this one only has evidence.

 

[Tosk]

Somebody mentioned that Tyler has a scar below his eye in the same location where Burnham injures Voq in "Battle at the Binary Stars." For all we know that is a clue that this is actually Voq and something the creators deliberately slipped into the makeup to let us know that he's not who he seems.

That's interesting...but it'd be super weird if you had such major surgery so as to look human but couldn't fix a little blemish.

 

[cooleddie74]

I know. That's why I'm wondering if it's just something to handwave away as the producers' little visual clue to help the audience slowly realize who he is. It doesn't make any sense from an in-universe point of view but, hey, television.

 

[DigificWriter]

What would you consider empirical evidence to be, short of a "reveal" on the show, or someone in production leaking? I mean, there has to be some middle ground between "irrefutably true" and "not true."

Empirical evidence, in this case, would be something in-series that actually explicitly creates a narrative link between Voq and Ash Tyler, in the same way that, for WestWorld, people were able to demonstrate that there was an outdated park logo in the scenes in which William arrives at the park, which created a tangible and evidentiary "clue" that we weren't seeing William's scenes concurrently with what was going on with the Man in Black.

Even though I dismissed that "clue" out of stubborn pride, it nonetheless existed and was verifiable.

Thus far, though, we have no such type of easily verifiable and in-universe "clues" that create any type of link between Voq and Ash Tyler; merely suppositions and conclusions drawn by pairing together BtS stuff that may or may not actually mean anything with incredibly vague quotes and behavior from Tyler that is admittedly suspicious but does not explicitly have any sort of link to either Voq or L'Rell.

 

[jamestyler]

Why would there be evidence against the theory when there's no empirical and objective evidence for it?

There are things that are undeniably true that support the theory - though I'll echo others in the theory being speculative in nature. Javid Iqbal not existing being one, the crediting scenario being another. Evidence against it would potentially be another logical explanation for that.

 

[Shawnster]

As much as I hate to say it, I think the theory has merit. I state this only because of the Javid Iqbal reasoning.

And the fact that story telling does sink to this level at times.

I'd rather ditch the Augment virus mutation nonsense. There is, however, precedent in Davin's character from Tribbles...

 

[Kor]

Not too crazy about "everyone is a klingon" theory. Definitely not true for Saru. Hope it doesn't become like "who is a Cylon" thing on bsg. Whoever is a klingon (Tyler, etc), I hope it gets revealed early on, and then move away from it.

I think the "everyone is a Klingon" thing is more of a tongue-in-cheek joke, not meant to be a serious theory.

Kor

 

[Tosk]

Empirical evidence, in this case, would be something in-series that actually explicitly creates a narrative link between Voq and Ash Tyler

Voq and L'Rell are together for six months. A few weeks later, we see L'Rell with no sign of Voq and she is captaining a prison ship. On board is a human who claims that they have both been there for seven months.

It's not proof but it is evidence.

Even though I dismissed that "clue" out of stubborn pride, it nonetheless existed and was verifiable.

Indeed.

Either way, I'm out. No more circles for me!

 

[Succubint]

So apparently this got tweeted. From what I understand, the tweeter is a known ST insider? In any case, Shazad Latif played that very character on Penny Dreadful. Another strong hint?

 

[Tuskin38]

Stella is Nick Meyer's dog

 

[Succubint]

In rewatching ep 5, I noticed that the Tribble is no longer on Lorca's desk when Saru and Michael have their discussion about the Tardigrade.

https://imgur.com/a/zE4uL

Then I remembered wondering about something from The Butcher's Knife. In this shot of the lab, there is a dissected creature's carcass in the left foreground. Could it be the Tribble? It looks small, furry and similar of color to the one that was on the desk. It looks roundish in shape on the right side and with it's skin peeled back a little and guts examined. ICK.

https://imgur.com/Of9ywXt

You can bet everyone will be expecting it to react to Tyler. But what if it's already dead?

 

[guyute03]

The IMDB page bothers the hell out of me. Feels like not a real person. There's no bio on the actor. It's very strange. Is it proof? I don't know. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. It is really weird though.

 

[Tuskin38]

IMDb is like wikipedia, almost anyone can edit it.

Voq was originally tied to another Javid Iqbal in IMDb but he said on facebook it wasn't him.