Spoilers The game changing Voq theory

[Timo]

Yup, see above. And all the more credit to them if they figure out that humans wouldn't see it that way.

Of course, Lorca is the likelier plant. It's he who, after killing half a dozen Klingons, deliberately fires a mere warning shot at L'Rell, and then looks alarmed when this shot accidentally sprays her face and she goes down. If he's Voq, he could kill other Klingons for looks, but would stop short of L'Rell specifically.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[F. King Daniel]

So you're saying you figure WWE performers are cleverer than Tyler?

Well, on par with the entire Klingon Empire if they lay elaborate plots which involve entirely unnecessary violence in order to pull a deeply implausible "surprise" twist later on.

 

[Salone31]

Yeah, i never got why Lorca didn't fire a kill shot, that was most definitely out of character but would fit in well with the spy theory. (hell the eye injectiona and the aversion to light could be a side effect of the transformation process)

 

[Kor]

Maybe Lorca actually was trying to take a kill shot at L'Oréal but missed because of his eye condition. I think he was farther away from her than the other Klingons he shot at.

Kor

 

[eschaton]

Seems to me there are three possibilities now.

1. Ash Tyler is Voq, and the writers think we are dumb and will be surprised when it's unveiled later as part of a betrayal.
2. Ash Tyler is Voq, but they plan the "reveal" pretty early, as the drama will come out of his developing conflicting feelings rather than working against the Discovery crew.
3. This is some sort of elaborate fakeout.

 

[KirkusOveractus]

All those false names in your post upset me.

I loved it! I kept reading to see what he'd call the characters next!

 

[KirkusOveractus]

Discovery is Federation/starfleet. Orville is union.

So Discovery is a non-union shop?

 

[Timo]

Yeah, i never got why Lorca didn't fire a kill shot, that was most definitely out of character but would fit in well with the spy theory. (hell the eye injectiona and the aversion to light could be a side effect of the transformation process)

But we see Lorca already when Voq still remains Klingon, and stranded aboard his ship. So the switcheroo would happen no earlier than in this episode, presumably at the torture room.

And of course "Lorca" would be later exposed because he no longer has to take the eye shots and isn't sensitive to bright light.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[UssGlenn]

Speaking of Lorca's eyes, they tortured him with exposure to bright light, but there seemed to be no lasting damage after they returned him to the cell. You'd think he would have been temporarily blinded or something. So his only symptom is pain when exposed to bright light, but the light doesn't actually do any damage to his eyes.

 

[jamestyler]

If Tyler is Voq, then explain the fight scene between him and L'Rell.

Which, I might point out, had no witnesses.

In the scenario of Tyler being a sleeper agent who's really Voq - he wouldn't have any clue he was Voq. This isn't a cunning trick between L'Rell and Tyler/Voq; it's a reality based on the memories implanted within.

In this theory he'd be a sleeper agent with the real Tyler's memories/personality front and centre in his mind. L'Rell had an affection for Voq. This was returned. Any physical relations would have been consensual then.

When Voq became Tyler, L'Rell's affections didn't change. But Voq believes he is Tyler. So L'Rell is continuing (or starting) a non-consensual physical relationship with Tyler as a surrogate for Voq.

In short: in this scenario, Tyler has been violated. Those feelings were real, those punches were real. From a wider creative view they'd be doubling the violation: Voq has also been violated and underneath that implanted persona, there'd be unconcious anger from Voq over not remaining as Klingon as he'd like.

 

[cooleddie74]

And if Tyler was a real person, they don't need to.

Sure.

If.

 

[eschaton]

There's also the possibility that Voq is actually played by Latif, but this dual role was meant as a fakeout in and of itself. That this casting trick is just one of many hints they are giving us to push our suspicion in the wrong direction entirely.

 

[cooleddie74]

Lorca could also have missed L'Rell and grazed the side of her face because he wanted to inflict pain on her and teach her a lesson about dealing with both he and his ship. It's not exactly Starfleet protocol to deliberately burn an adversary to remind them not to come after you, but in his mind as he's fleeing the prison vessel it could have been a sadistic way to get back at her for torturing and striking him.

 

[Kor]

But Klingons enjoy pain.

Kor

 

[jamestyler]

Lorca could also have missed L'Rell and grazed the side of her face because he wanted to inflict pain on her and teach her a lesson about dealing with both he and his ship. It's not exactly Starfleet protocol to deliberately burn an adversary to remind them not to come after you, but in his mind as he's fleeing the prison vessel it could have been a sadistic way to get back at her for torturing and striking him.

Funny thing being, I see this as a longshot but it fits into Lorca perfectly. Nearly anything with Lorca can be thrown into the "He's a proper mad bastard." theory. Because he really does seem a few asteroids short of a belt.

 

[Tuskin38]

1. Ash Tyler is Voq, and the writers think we are dumb and will be surprised when it's unveiled later as part of a betrayal.

The only people figuring it out is people like us, who are delving into it after between episodes. The average viewer going week by week probably won’t figure it out this early.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

So Discovery is a non-union shop?

Well they're in some deep shit now.

The Lorca = Klingon theory certainly has a lot of merit, but I'm sticking with it being a well-established misdirect by the writers to try and distract attention away from Tyler being Voq.

 

[Tuskin38]

 

[MvRojo]

Seems to me there are three possibilities now.

1. Ash Tyler is Voq, and the writers think we are dumb and will be surprised when it's unveiled later as part of a betrayal.
2. Ash Tyler is Voq, but they plan the "reveal" pretty early, as the drama will come out of his developing conflicting feelings rather than working against the Discovery crew.
3. This is some sort of elaborate fakeout.

Could be #2. I was happy that Lorca's menagerie wasn't a dragged out secret. And also the issue with the Tardigrade wasn't dragged out either.

Though I would be prefer if it was #3.

 

[Midquest]

The only people figuring it out is people like us, who are delving into it after between episodes. The average viewer going week by week probably won’t figure it out this early.

Yeah, this. People new to Star Trek are unlikely to even fathom that a Klingon could look like or become "human," and unlikely to be looking for Tyler to be anything other than what he appears to be, species-wise. Anecdotally, the four people I know who are watching this show with little or no Trek experience--smart people tuned into how stories work--don't have the possibility on their radar.

Also, if Tyler doesn't know he's Voq, it makes sense he'd attack L'Rell.
If Tyler knows he's Voq, it still makes sense he'd attack L'Rell. If you want to stage a convincing escape, you start faking it before Lorca sees it--you don't wait for him to come around the corner, especially if you're going to need to make convincing noise to attract him.