I'd be screaming blue murder at the bank.
The Down Under Lounge
- Thread starter TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME
- Start date
I am so sad about this poor girl who was murdered in Melbourne. I saw the photos of her obviously at OzComic Con and started crying. So awful.
Except it is probably not a sociopath but a guy with untreated mental health issues.
Not really a "death penalty, do eeeeeet" situation a lot of the time.
Not really a "death penalty, do eeeeeet" situation a lot of the time.
And ffs, what is it with people immediately crying death penalty every time someone is killed.
NOT. THE. ANSWER.
NOT. THE. ANSWER.
I just feel some people are beyond redemption... a VERY, VERY FEW people.
Some people can be redeemed. despite my reservations, I'm inclined to accept that of the Bali 2, that they could live on doing good work in prison to help rehabilitate others. I dunno about this guy. And if they are beyond redemption, why keep them among us? Why risk they could do this again? What about the likes of the Sydney siege gunman? He was given chance after chance (while acknowledging a failure in keeping track of him), including the possibility he murdered his wife. Keep or not?
I like you, teacake, don't hate me for this.
Some people can be redeemed. despite my reservations, I'm inclined to accept that of the Bali 2, that they could live on doing good work in prison to help rehabilitate others. I dunno about this guy. And if they are beyond redemption, why keep them among us? Why risk they could do this again? What about the likes of the Sydney siege gunman? He was given chance after chance (while acknowledging a failure in keeping track of him), including the possibility he murdered his wife. Keep or not?
I like you, teacake, don't hate me for this.
Because we are better than they are, is the very reason why we should not stoop to their level and take a life.
We are a first world country that achieved a level of financial equality, medical care, personal freedoms and an enviable (despite people's complaints) safety net.
We don't need to kill people we don't want among us because they are violent. We have the finances to keep people in prison who represent an ongoing threat to society. For reasons I don't understand we don't do this, giving absurdly light sentences to pedophiles, rapists and often even killers.
Capital punishment should exist when the cost of keeping a person alive in prison is not feasible for the society in question. We are long past that.
I hate all these people and I have much less compassion than a lot of folk, the pedophiles and nutters and chronically violent. The Sydney guy. All those fucking priests. People with antisocial personality disorder or FAS who careen about lashing out violently over shit that someone else might just say fuck you under their breath over. They suck. But I don't want to live in a society that says we have to kill these people because we don't want them living next door.
I think if we had adequate sentencing for violent crimes people wouldn't feel like capital punishment was an answer. I mean once you kill someone the problem is solved and since the sentencing only keeps someone off the street for 7 or 14 years at best it's very tempting to say just get rid of them, ENOUGH. I believe this anger should be directed at our shit sentencing and our shit mental health care.
We don't need to kill people we don't want among us because they are violent. We have the finances to keep people in prison who represent an ongoing threat to society. For reasons I don't understand we don't do this, giving absurdly light sentences to pedophiles, rapists and often even killers.
Capital punishment should exist when the cost of keeping a person alive in prison is not feasible for the society in question. We are long past that.
I hate all these people and I have much less compassion than a lot of folk, the pedophiles and nutters and chronically violent. The Sydney guy. All those fucking priests. People with antisocial personality disorder or FAS who careen about lashing out violently over shit that someone else might just say fuck you under their breath over. They suck. But I don't want to live in a society that says we have to kill these people because we don't want them living next door.
I think if we had adequate sentencing for violent crimes people wouldn't feel like capital punishment was an answer. I mean once you kill someone the problem is solved and since the sentencing only keeps someone off the street for 7 or 14 years at best it's very tempting to say just get rid of them, ENOUGH. I believe this anger should be directed at our shit sentencing and our shit mental health care.
I agree entirely about shit sentencing. Still...
Example: Ivan Milat. Is it worthwhile keeping him alive? What if he gets out? The cost for prisoners is something like $100,000 per year. Given there are thousands of prisoners, it's a substantial amount. Now, the number of people I'm talking about here, is very small so maybe it won't save that much in the larger scheme of things, so there is that.
We conduct war to protect society from the worst the world can throw at us. Ivan Milat is, even with the best will in the world, the worst within our society. No prison is perfect. No law enforcement agency is perfect. It took years to find Daniel Morecombe's killer, and some are never caught. Shouldn't we reduce the risk to society?
On the flip side, there was a case recently in America where it was found a man was executed based on fabricated evidence so someone (prosecutor or police) could get a result. Actually, there's been three or four. And that is a very, very good reason to not have the death penalty, let alone many others. But when someone is caught with blood on their hands, and they are unrepentant, and can be evaluated to show they'd do it again if they got out... what is the point? It is of no benefit to them, other than being stuck in a box until the last breath, and no benefit to us, and even a risk. Let me stress, it should never be done out of vengeance, but for a removal of unrepentant threat.
I know I'm swimming against the tide here, but I have given it some thought.
Example: Ivan Milat. Is it worthwhile keeping him alive? What if he gets out? The cost for prisoners is something like $100,000 per year. Given there are thousands of prisoners, it's a substantial amount. Now, the number of people I'm talking about here, is very small so maybe it won't save that much in the larger scheme of things, so there is that.
We conduct war to protect society from the worst the world can throw at us. Ivan Milat is, even with the best will in the world, the worst within our society. No prison is perfect. No law enforcement agency is perfect. It took years to find Daniel Morecombe's killer, and some are never caught. Shouldn't we reduce the risk to society?
On the flip side, there was a case recently in America where it was found a man was executed based on fabricated evidence so someone (prosecutor or police) could get a result. Actually, there's been three or four. And that is a very, very good reason to not have the death penalty, let alone many others. But when someone is caught with blood on their hands, and they are unrepentant, and can be evaluated to show they'd do it again if they got out... what is the point? It is of no benefit to them, other than being stuck in a box until the last breath, and no benefit to us, and even a risk. Let me stress, it should never be done out of vengeance, but for a removal of unrepentant threat.
I know I'm swimming against the tide here, but I have given it some thought.
Last edited:
I think execution is too good for Milat. Let him rot in prison. Maybe one day he will admit he didn't do it all alone or he might admit to other murders he is very likely to have committed.
Besides when someone like Ziggy Pohl can be convicted of murder and serve 10 long years and only get released when someone else walked into a police station and admit that he had murdered Ziggy's wife than something is wrong with out justice system.
Besides when someone like Ziggy Pohl can be convicted of murder and serve 10 long years and only get released when someone else walked into a police station and admit that he had murdered Ziggy's wife than something is wrong with out justice system.
All this stuff goes through your head, and none of the scenarios are very comforting.
If it was a perfect copy of my license = rat in the RTA or one of the banks I have accounts with.
If it was done by answering my security questions = it was someone close to me.
If it was mail theft, we have a security mailbox system in my building = a rat in the post office.
If it was the teller in on it, or just grossly incompetent = not very comforting either.
No CCTV footage yet, but it should be a formality you'd hope. I did see the forged signature - it wasn't even close to mine. Whatever happened, this bank teller needs to find alternative employment, and that's what I'll be suggesting first thing tomorrow when they call. I am not angry. I am furious.
It looks like I mis-remembered the Ziggy Pohl case. Ziggy served 10 years and was released. It wasn't until 7 years after Ziggy's release that Bawden walked into a police station and admitted to killing a woman 17 years before. Bawden didn't realise that someone had been convicted of the crime.
Bawden only ended up serving 8 years for murder - 2 less years than Ziggy Pohl served.
Details here
Bawden only ended up serving 8 years for murder - 2 less years than Ziggy Pohl served.
Details here
I can understand wanting the death penalty out of anger and a need for vengeance.
Wanting it to save money is far less understandable. I like to think people drag that out because they don't want to own up to the raw emotions that make them want to see people dead.
I can't see how America's death penalty has made them any safer, richer, or a better society.
And when exactly was the last time we did that?
Wanting it to save money is far less understandable. I like to think people drag that out because they don't want to own up to the raw emotions that make them want to see people dead.
I can't see how America's death penalty has made them any safer, richer, or a better society.
And when exactly was the last time we did that?
@ Botany Bay: We're missing something here.
We keep getting phone calls asking for info about power bills, phone bills, that kind of thing, we say no thanks and hang up. There are many people out there trying to scam money. Another example, I keep getting emails regarding my PayPal account, and to reply to PayPal via the email. Only when you open up the email, in code, it doesn't go to a PP address at all (though it says it does). Have you received or answered any emails that say they are from your bank, PP, etc? Even if they look real, there is a very good chance they aren't.
@teacake: Well, WW2, I guess, though I'm not keen on the Taliban or ISIL lately. Outside that (Vietnam, etc), well, then you're diving into the murky world of international politics and empires by other means, and ain't no one got time for that. Everything you said above is essentially correct, I can't refute it. But vengeance really is a dish best served cold. Otherwise, as we're basically saying, it could be taken out on the wrong person. And I concur about the cost, for the numbers we're talking about, it is negligible.
And no, America (well, certain states) is not better off with the death penalty, because of their flawed law and legal systems, coupled to a frontier mentality.
We keep getting phone calls asking for info about power bills, phone bills, that kind of thing, we say no thanks and hang up. There are many people out there trying to scam money. Another example, I keep getting emails regarding my PayPal account, and to reply to PayPal via the email. Only when you open up the email, in code, it doesn't go to a PP address at all (though it says it does). Have you received or answered any emails that say they are from your bank, PP, etc? Even if they look real, there is a very good chance they aren't.
@teacake: Well, WW2, I guess, though I'm not keen on the Taliban or ISIL lately. Outside that (Vietnam, etc), well, then you're diving into the murky world of international politics and empires by other means, and ain't no one got time for that. Everything you said above is essentially correct, I can't refute it. But vengeance really is a dish best served cold. Otherwise, as we're basically saying, it could be taken out on the wrong person. And I concur about the cost, for the numbers we're talking about, it is negligible.
And no, America (well, certain states) is not better off with the death penalty, because of their flawed law and legal systems, coupled to a frontier mentality.
Last edited:
No death penalty thanks.
It's too final (obviously)...there's no recourse if proof turns up that the jury got it wrong...it turns the rapist into a rapist and murderer to cover his tracks...the endless appeals always end up costing the taxpayer more in legal costs than incarceration. You could always read some accounts of what happens to grown men before they are executed. Actually, no, don't. We don't want the state to be responsible for that.
Some great comments here about Malcolm Fraser. He was my first PM, and that rare breed who actually moved to the left the older they got. I, too, am too young to remember much about his government, but studying it over the years, most commentators have not been kind, deriding his period as a bit of a wasteland for reform, but perhaps his steady hand was what we needed after the Whitlam years. Whatever the case, he seems like a man who sticks to his convictions, and I respect him for that.
One of the most touching things in Australian politics was to see the rapprochment between Whitlam and Fraser over the years. This cartoon in the Financial Review yesterday made me choke up a bit...
It's too final (obviously)...there's no recourse if proof turns up that the jury got it wrong...it turns the rapist into a rapist and murderer to cover his tracks...the endless appeals always end up costing the taxpayer more in legal costs than incarceration. You could always read some accounts of what happens to grown men before they are executed. Actually, no, don't. We don't want the state to be responsible for that.
Some great comments here about Malcolm Fraser. He was my first PM, and that rare breed who actually moved to the left the older they got. I, too, am too young to remember much about his government, but studying it over the years, most commentators have not been kind, deriding his period as a bit of a wasteland for reform, but perhaps his steady hand was what we needed after the Whitlam years. Whatever the case, he seems like a man who sticks to his convictions, and I respect him for that.
One of the most touching things in Australian politics was to see the rapprochment between Whitlam and Fraser over the years. This cartoon in the Financial Review yesterday made me choke up a bit...
Nope. None of the above. It's possible someone got a record of my keystrokes when I was writing in my secret answers, but that would have been years ago (how does that keystroke capture scam work anyway?).
Still doesn't explain the allegedly flawless license. That's the scary bit.
Unfortunately I don't have a lot of details yet. As soon as he spoke to the teller, the guy I was dealing with at the bank went from helpful and concerned to into dissembling, corporate speak, ass covering mode, and that's the bit that rather pissed me off. They handled it well till that point, then they started refusing to tell me things and began siding with the teller : "Ohh, the signature's not TOO far from yours..." he said with a straight face. At that point I went to the cops, who, I am pleased to say, were fantastic.
I don't want to not kill people because they could be redeemed. I want to not kill people because killing people is wrong. It's fundamental to a society to believe this, money, politics and man's baser needs for vengeance don't do us any favours when we forget this.
Tieing the Bali 2 into it makes me think you would be happy for them to be executed if they were unrepentant shitheads?
All this stuff bothers me because Australians do whine about 'bring back the death penalty' all the time, every big upsetting case that splashes across the news. And politicians do pander to this kind of thing.
Now 7 days since my money got stolen and still nothing to report.
If this ever happens, don't expect the bank to be much help, they are in 100% arse covering mode and won't confirm how the money was stolen. All they are telling me is the fraudster had a drivers license that matched the copy of mine they had on record and that they have CCTV footage of the lowlife, but won't show it to me. As of Wednesday night they hadn't even bothered to forward it to the cops.So I cancelled my account on the spot and have terminated all my business with the bank in question.
Being sucked in by a fraud I can forgive, but the response has been disgraceful, they truly just don't give a shit.
Again, change those passwords...make your secret questions impossible and don't ever let your license be copied.
between the interviews, multiple hour long on hold waits and stuffing around changing accounts and direct debit details I reckon I've wasted two full days on this. I need a drink!
Won't be tonight : 7am start tomorrow...doing my bit for democracy and working on the NSW election tomorrow.
If this ever happens, don't expect the bank to be much help, they are in 100% arse covering mode and won't confirm how the money was stolen. All they are telling me is the fraudster had a drivers license that matched the copy of mine they had on record and that they have CCTV footage of the lowlife, but won't show it to me. As of Wednesday night they hadn't even bothered to forward it to the cops.So I cancelled my account on the spot and have terminated all my business with the bank in question.
Being sucked in by a fraud I can forgive, but the response has been disgraceful, they truly just don't give a shit.
Again, change those passwords...make your secret questions impossible and don't ever let your license be copied.
between the interviews, multiple hour long on hold waits and stuffing around changing accounts and direct debit details I reckon I've wasted two full days on this. I need a drink!
Won't be tonight : 7am start tomorrow...doing my bit for democracy and working on the NSW election tomorrow.
have they re-imbursed you for the money that was stolen?
And maybe it's time to take the story to a new outlet and embarras the hell of the rancid fuckers.
They''ll love the media to raise a stink about their lax security procedures - NOT.
