The Down Under Lounge
- Thread starter TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME
- Start date
^ Nice pic
Well, this thread's slowed right down, and I suspect it might be waiting for a reply to teacake. As this will be my last post for a while, here goes.
Précis: in discussing the Bali 2 situation, I said the death penalty may have to be accepted. Others disagreed, I'm fine with that. You may be better people than me. But for me, the Bali 2 knew the risks, especially Indonesian law, they completely messed up the lives of the other 7, let alone the lives of the addicts they supplied. I'd prefer if they did life, but if they die, well, they die. I said repentance was key.
Teacake:
Let's use the term 'society', to cover a group of descriptions: tribe, town, county, state, country.
Society exists to protect people. It can shelter them, feed them, clothe them, create teams, create the infrastructure that builds us up. But society has a dark side: it exists to protect us. From the very earliest days, it puit up defences against the Wild, against the Other, against the Men in the Forest. And sometimes it has to protect us from the enemy within. Example: I have zero problem if the Australians who went to fight with ISIL never come back, because I never want those guys on our streets.
I said there should be a death penalty, but for, and I cannot stress this enough, for a very, very few. As teacake said, you can't trust politicians with that, but I firmly believe some people are not worth keeping alive.
Example: Adrian Bayley. Killed Jill Meagher, also raped several other women. If he gets out, he will do it again. And he could get out - technicality, end of mandatory period, escape. Do we let society go through that again? Is it worth keeping him if he is going to damage or kill more people? There are some people who are beyond redemption, that's my point. Bayley, Milat. They guy who did the Port Arthur massacre? Not sure. He might do it again, but he might be a crazy man. We haven't heard enough about who he is now. There were some letters in the paper by Milat that show zero remorse, so there's no evidence he wouldn't do it again.
Right now there are 2 Australians facing the death penalty in China for attempting to smuggle ice and heroin. Ice: not even once. It is a blight on society, an absolute plague, so my sympathy is even more limited. I'd go so far as to say fuck those guys. However, China has a policy that if someone on death row shows remorse, rehabilitation and other positive improvements, it becomes life, meaning life in this case, in more ways than one. I'm okay with that. Wouldn't like to see thoe guys on the street though. Other people's lives mean nothing to them.
Am I in favour of the death penalty? Yes.
Do I want it brought back here? Yes... but no. I still don't believe those guys should be kept alive, they are a risk... but politicians and the justice system cannot be trusted with the administration of it. So probably better without. In short, those guys are, I feel a threat that should be neutralised, and not every prison system is permanent.
And that will be my last post for a while, real life is suddenly busy. If you want to refute my argument and damn for a bloodthirsty puppet of the right-wing media, Bonzy has my email address.
Well, this thread's slowed right down, and I suspect it might be waiting for a reply to teacake. As this will be my last post for a while, here goes.
Précis: in discussing the Bali 2 situation, I said the death penalty may have to be accepted. Others disagreed, I'm fine with that. You may be better people than me. But for me, the Bali 2 knew the risks, especially Indonesian law, they completely messed up the lives of the other 7, let alone the lives of the addicts they supplied. I'd prefer if they did life, but if they die, well, they die. I said repentance was key.
Teacake:
Me:
Teacake:
I do agree with the last par, and that's why I have reservations about my position. But I still maintain it. Would I prefer them executed if they were unrepentant shitheads? On reflection, yes.
Let's use the term 'society', to cover a group of descriptions: tribe, town, county, state, country.
Society exists to protect people. It can shelter them, feed them, clothe them, create teams, create the infrastructure that builds us up. But society has a dark side: it exists to protect us. From the very earliest days, it puit up defences against the Wild, against the Other, against the Men in the Forest. And sometimes it has to protect us from the enemy within. Example: I have zero problem if the Australians who went to fight with ISIL never come back, because I never want those guys on our streets.
I said there should be a death penalty, but for, and I cannot stress this enough, for a very, very few. As teacake said, you can't trust politicians with that, but I firmly believe some people are not worth keeping alive.
Example: Adrian Bayley. Killed Jill Meagher, also raped several other women. If he gets out, he will do it again. And he could get out - technicality, end of mandatory period, escape. Do we let society go through that again? Is it worth keeping him if he is going to damage or kill more people? There are some people who are beyond redemption, that's my point. Bayley, Milat. They guy who did the Port Arthur massacre? Not sure. He might do it again, but he might be a crazy man. We haven't heard enough about who he is now. There were some letters in the paper by Milat that show zero remorse, so there's no evidence he wouldn't do it again.
Right now there are 2 Australians facing the death penalty in China for attempting to smuggle ice and heroin. Ice: not even once. It is a blight on society, an absolute plague, so my sympathy is even more limited. I'd go so far as to say fuck those guys. However, China has a policy that if someone on death row shows remorse, rehabilitation and other positive improvements, it becomes life, meaning life in this case, in more ways than one. I'm okay with that. Wouldn't like to see thoe guys on the street though. Other people's lives mean nothing to them.
Am I in favour of the death penalty? Yes.
Do I want it brought back here? Yes... but no. I still don't believe those guys should be kept alive, they are a risk... but politicians and the justice system cannot be trusted with the administration of it. So probably better without. In short, those guys are, I feel a threat that should be neutralised, and not every prison system is permanent.
And that will be my last post for a while, real life is suddenly busy. If you want to refute my argument and damn for a bloodthirsty puppet of the right-wing media, Bonzy has my email address.
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Yes by all means let's protect society by executing everyone selling hard drugs, that's what society is for! To keep the good people safe.
Australis you are not going to convince me that Australia needs the death penalty, which is what you are saying even though you don't like saying it.
We are a first world nation, we can lock people up. If we're letting dangerous people out when they shouldn't be that is what needs to be changed.
No Adrian Bayley should not be executed. He murdered someone. Do we murder back? Are we not more than that?
We are a first world nation, we can lock people up. If we're letting dangerous people out when they shouldn't be that is what needs to be changed.
No Adrian Bayley should not be executed. He murdered someone. Do we murder back? Are we not more than that?
No-one has been executed in Tasmania since 1946 and there were only three executions in the entire 20th century. It hasn't caused Tasmania any harm.
I don't think that Martin Bryant should have been executed even though he killed 35 people. I am happy for him to rot in Risdon Prison for the rest of his pitiful life. He has been there for over 18 years now, I hope he lives another 40 years or more and that he ends his life hobbling around the prison on his walking frame.
There is one prisoner who has been in Risdon for about 40 years.
I don't think that Martin Bryant should have been executed even though he killed 35 people. I am happy for him to rot in Risdon Prison for the rest of his pitiful life. He has been there for over 18 years now, I hope he lives another 40 years or more and that he ends his life hobbling around the prison on his walking frame.
There is one prisoner who has been in Risdon for about 40 years.
Not a bad idea. If I do, I will serve it up cold, after everything is totally finalised. Money has been re-imbursed, but still no explanation of who it was, why they did it, or how they got a copy of my license.
It's been a very dispiriting episode. One of those times you realise how insignificant you are. How little recourse you have. How poor banks' security procedures are. How much distress a criminal act can cause. How easily this can happen.
Ironically, on my desk is a shredder, where every bill goes after I pay it. I would dearly love to know which of the 3-4 businesses that have copies of my license caused this. I will never, ever, under any circumstances hand it over again.
So working the election was interesting. A very long day : 7am till nearly 11pm. I ended up dealing with all the unusual votes : out of their area, lost/confused, silent voters etc. 95% of people were a pleasure to deal with, but the other 5% who feel taking ten minutes of their precious time to exercise their right to vote is a massive impertinence -- those ones start to grate after ten hours. Particularly when there are people around the world who would literally kill for the right to vote in a free election. Not sure if I'd do it again. The evening when you count the votes really drags and I really missed watching the election night coverage. By the time I got home it was long over. But, happy to have done it once.
Now that I'm off the fence, I can have my $0.02 about the result. I have to say I think I'm missing something about Mike Baird : I'm not sure what the fuss is about, but the media reaction to him has been so glowing, and the punters clearly love him. I daresay he'll be off to Canberra at some point. He's done his job. Labor probably can't win next time either.
It was a shocking night for Labor. It looks like the alliance between the Unionist and the inner city hard Leftie that's been around since the days of Whitlam is finished. The inner city is now all Greens, and Labor, in hindsight, wasted enormous amounts of resources on seats like Balmain and Newtown. These areas are gone for good. Labor needs to stop pandering to the left, and move back to the centre. That's where the main game is in Australian politics. Their current 34% primary vote ain't gonna win you anything.
I am off to join the counter-protest to the Reclaim Australia protest.
Ha ha. The counter protesters outnumbered the bigoted Reclaim group by about three to one.
It got a bit heated and one of the counter protesters was assaulted. The police handled everything well and professionally.
It got a bit heated and one of the counter protesters was assaulted. The police handled everything well and professionally.
Apparently it was pretty hectic in Melbourne with lots of screaming.
The Reclaim Australia guys accused us of being paid protestors. Maybe I will get a check from whoever is paying me next week?
Good on you for going to the rally Miss Chicken
Agreed. Nothing but respect for people who go out and stand up for what they believe in.
I must admit I'd never heard of these people before today. Is it a facebook racist thing? Sounds like they got a pretty poor turnout at Martin Place in Sydney today. They would have got absolutely soaked, too. It hasn't stopped raining all day.
I must admit I'd never heard of these people before today. Is it a facebook racist thing? Sounds like they got a pretty poor turnout at Martin Place in Sydney today. They would have got absolutely soaked, too. It hasn't stopped raining all day.
I only know about them from reading slackbastard a lefty anarchist blogger who is having a constant meltdown about reclaim australia. Not sure how much impact they have, we'll see if the media decides they need to wank over interviews with them or seek out their "views".
I'm not sure the reclaim australia mob are particularly bright.
From one picture they must not realise that Roman Legionaries and Vikings are not Australian as they decided to include them in one of their rallies.
They was one 'Christian' Reclaim Australia speaker who was criticising Muslims for not respecting women - this speaker on at least two occasions called counter-protesting women 'cows'.
