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The Down Under Lounge

Impossible to find work?

Not impossible, there are some bosses who genuinely buy in to the idea of mature age hires. But we’d be denying reality to say ageism isn’t a significant issue in the Australian labour market, and, it no doubt would be causing some to think “why bother?” going through the time and expense of re-training. It isn't easy to study when you have kids and financial responsibilities. It takes all your energy and financial resources, and to come out the other side and find you aren't even being considered because of your age is a very bitter pill to swallow.

Is there a problem? Yes. There are now 200,000 Australians over fifty on the dole, up a whopping 45% since 2010, indicating that the older worker was very likely the first to get the spear during the GFC, and he or she has struggled to get back into work.

Over 45's account for 34% of those unemployed, and, much to our disgrace, 45% of long-term unemployed according to the HRC.

I've seen too much of it with my own eyes. My first boss (who went onto be CEO of an ASX 200 firm) flat out refused to hire anyone over 30, arguing they can't be taught.

It's a dirty little secret in one particular industry that the ideal hire is very young, very intelligent, and very insecure - these people are more likely to buy into "workplace culture" and die at their desks to impress their families that they work at Smith and Jones in a big city office.

The HR director of a very prestigious law firm in Sydney once admitted to me when I asked her why it’s such a struggle to change careers via graduate employment that she’d hired one mature graduate in six years. Twenty eight year old managers don’t like managing people in their forties was her rationale.

All this sort of stuff is real, rampant, and has to go. It has no place in Australia 2055, or Australia 2015. We need the 55 year old worker whose knees and back are shot from years of laying bricks to be able to become an accountant if he or she wants. Or the person who spent their life working in a career that technology has made obsolete should be able to start again.

Let's see the Corporations Act contain a provision that for a listed company, demographic details of their graduate intake must be provided in comparison to the demographic profile of the preceding year's university graduates, and stamp this endemic discrimination out once and for all -- then you might start seeing older people take the likes of Hockey seriously.

As for being able to draw down on your super to fund a career change, I think this is a worthwhile idea, as long as it is structured as a loan from the super fund that you have to pay back when you are able to. I'd draw the line at Hockey’s other thought bubble -- being able to take out lump sums to fund house deposits -- such a move would only make housing affordability even worse (if that's even possible -- the median, yes median property auctioned yesterday in Sydney was almost $1.2 million).
 
I was unemployed for a year in my late 40s. When I walked through the door, I could see the interviewer's face change when they saw my age. Happened many times. Current employer is fine, I have no problem with young managers, but my job has been reduced significantly (mostly outsourced to India) and it's at the periphery of the mining industry, which isn';t going so well (and working for mning interests makes me uncomfortable anyway, hippy that I am).
 
After all the noise about last week's IPSOS poll, Newspoll has come out to show it's pretty much an outlier.

the coalition now trails on 2PP 55/45 (a drop of 2 points from the last one).
 
Yep, broadly speaking, the 2PP is at the same level as it was in the immediate aftermath of last year's infamous budget. The Coalition recovery this year takes it back to that (election losing) level.
 
Yeah, and the stuff on the news today about super, and how the rich get huge compensation and the poor get practically nothing. I'd be incandescent with rage if I had the energy.
 
I guess the question is : what is the purpose of super? Something that encourages retirement savings, or a vehicle for building wealth in tax advantaged way. It works beautifully as the latter -- there are five self managed funds now with over $100 million in them!

In other news, another PUP has broken off the leash with Senator Glenn "Brick with eyes" Lazarus quitting the party to sit as an independent. This is happening way too often. Should senators doing this be replaced with another senator from that party? Anyway, the Clive Palmer experiment looks to be all but over. He's shown what money can do politics : the carbon tax is gone and he's caused merry hell for the government for a while. Suspect he's not going to be around in parliament much longer. He's had his fun.
 
I guess the question is : what is the purpose of super? Something that encourages retirement savings, or a vehicle for building wealth in tax advantaged way. It works beautifully as the latter -- there are five self managed funds now with over $100 million in them!

In other news, another PUP has broken off the leash with Senator Glenn "Brick with eyes" Lazarus quitting the party to sit as an independent. This is happening way too often. Should senators doing this be replaced with another senator from that party? Anyway, the Clive Palmer experiment looks to be all but over. He's shown what money can do politics : the carbon tax is gone and he's caused merry hell for the government for a while. Suspect he's not going to be around in parliament much longer. He's had his fun.

Under the constitution, the parties are irrelevant. There is no requirement for a senator or MP to resign their seat just because they left the party they were elected under.

It however becomes an issue if the perons is unable to continue to sit in the Senate (death, disability, disqualification for bankruptcy or criminal conviction).

The 1977 Constitutional amendment requires a senator to be replaced by a person from that same party so if Glen Larazarus dropped dead tomorrow there would be a legal argument over who would replace him.

It could be argued that he was a PuP memember when he won the seat it should be filled with a PuP member.

That's the only real way it could be worked. As a new independant he's go no-one else on the ticket to replace him (though Nick Xenephon ran as an indepedent he did have a #2 on his ticket and she could be appointed to fill his seat) and you can't have by-elections for the senate.
 
Sure, but I wonder if its worth changing, and requiring party defectors to be replaced with a Senator from the same party.

We now have three Senators who've quit the party they were elected to represent, and, shock, horror, none of them have had the decency to resign. You can hardly argue the voters of Tasmania were falling over themselves to send Independent Senator Lambie off to Canberra -- for better or worse 99% of them voted PUP above the line, and presumably want a PUP representative.

The only thing I can think of against the idea is that it would remove conscience voting. Say Abbott wanted to introduce conscription or something -- he could just replace any dissenters.

Hmm. Maybe best to leave it alone?

Speaking of voting, can I suggest any NSW voters check which electorate they are in. There has been a significant redistribution, and checking the electoral commission website could save you having to waste time with declaration votes on the 28th. I have stayed in my electorate literally by one street. I bet most of my neighbours don't even realise they have to now vote elsewhere. Just another ball in the air in what's shaping up to be an unexpectedly interesting election.
 
With the election, I say, bring it on. Baird might win, but I think public feeling is running deep against him, and my not be really apparent 'til the day.

I'm off my game today (death of Sir Terry). I'll get back in a few.
 
Sure, but I wonder if its worth changing, and requiring party defectors to be replaced with a Senator from the same party.

We now have three Senators who've quit the party they were elected to represent, and, shock, horror, none of them have had the decency to resign. You can hardly argue the voters of Tasmania were falling over themselves to send Independent Senator Lambie off to Canberra -- for better or worse 99% of them voted PUP above the line, and presumably want a PUP representative.

The only thing I can think of against the idea is that it would remove conscience voting. Say Abbott wanted to introduce conscription or something -- he could just replace any dissenters.

Hmm. Maybe best to leave it alone?

Speaking of voting, can I suggest any NSW voters check which electorate they are in. There has been a significant redistribution, and checking the electoral commission website could save you having to waste time with declaration votes on the 28th. I have stayed in my electorate literally by one street. I bet most of my neighbours don't even realise they have to now vote elsewhere. Just another ball in the air in what's shaping up to be an unexpectedly interesting election.

Tasmanians do not tend to vote above the line, in fact they vote below the line more often than people in the other states as it is stated in this article

Everywhere but Tasmania and the ACT, voters have enthusiastically embraced the idea and 95 per cent of them now vote above the line rather than listing preferences

http://www.theage.com.au/comment/in...above-the-line-you-decide-20140705-zsvh8.html

The article explains how Jacqui Lambie became a senator and it wasn't because of people voting above the line

To illustrate, let’s have a brief look at how PUP’s Jacqui Lambie is now a Tasmanian senator. The 2013 quota was calculated at 48,137 votes and Lambie initially polled 21,794 votes or 0.45 of a quota. By the 154th preference transfer she was still 16,994 votes shy of that quota. But at the 155th count she struck it lucky in the form of surplus votes from the ALP and ended with a total of 55,572 votes - well in excess of the quota. Her ultimate victory owed as much to the 33,778 votes she harvested from other candidates as the 21,794 she won in her own right.
 
With the election, I say, bring it on. Baird might win, but I think public feeling is running deep against him, and my not be really apparent 'til the day.

I'm off my game today (death of Sir Terry). I'll get back in a few.

The ABC had an article up that says pretty much the exact opposite. OF the 3 most recent leaders to face elections, (Baird, Newman, Napthine) he's by the far the most popular and from other comments is the media is fairly well liked and a moderate conservative and pretty much been favourite to win all along.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-03-...pass-mike-baird-luke-foley-leadership/6302904

But then again we have the contiung stench from the federal government and Baird is pushing an electricity privatisation agenda so it could be close.
 
^ All the above is true, but there is a lot of anger in Newcastle re the rail closure thing, the messing about with ports, CSG and mining issues. They have pulled back from CSG but I dunno, trust is a thing. Not that Labor's in front on that either.
 
I have always loved spiders and have taught my children that the vast majority of spiders are harmless but that they should not touch spiders because they might hurt the spider.

They were allowed to catch spiders in theit bug catcher but after looking at them they had to release them where they found them.
 
We get huntsmen in the house, and I have to catch and release. That's a fun game! Also, orb spiders in the yard
 
Sure, but I wonder if its worth changing, and requiring party defectors to be replaced with a Senator from the same party.

We now have three Senators who've quit the party they were elected to represent, and, shock, horror, none of them have had the decency to resign. You can hardly argue the voters of Tasmania were falling over themselves to send Independent Senator Lambie off to Canberra -- for better or worse 99% of them voted PUP above the line, and presumably want a PUP representative.

The only thing I can think of against the idea is that it would remove conscience voting. Say Abbott wanted to introduce conscription or something -- he could just replace any dissenters.

Hmm. Maybe best to leave it alone?

Speaking of voting, can I suggest any NSW voters check which electorate they are in. There has been a significant redistribution, and checking the electoral commission website could save you having to waste time with declaration votes on the 28th. I have stayed in my electorate literally by one street. I bet most of my neighbours don't even realise they have to now vote elsewhere. Just another ball in the air in what's shaping up to be an unexpectedly interesting election.

Tasmanians do not tend to vote above the line, in fact they vote below the line more often than people in the other states as it is stated in this article

Everywhere but Tasmania and the ACT, voters have enthusiastically embraced the idea and 95 per cent of them now vote above the line rather than listing preferences

http://www.theage.com.au/comment/in...above-the-line-you-decide-20140705-zsvh8.html

The article explains how Jacqui Lambie became a senator and it wasn't because of people voting above the line

To illustrate, let’s have a brief look at how PUP’s Jacqui Lambie is now a Tasmanian senator. The 2013 quota was calculated at 48,137 votes and Lambie initially polled 21,794 votes or 0.45 of a quota. By the 154th preference transfer she was still 16,994 votes shy of that quota. But at the 155th count she struck it lucky in the form of surplus votes from the ALP and ended with a total of 55,572 votes - well in excess of the quota. Her ultimate victory owed as much to the 33,778 votes she harvested from other candidates as the 21,794 she won in her own right.

Sure. She polled 21,794 first preference votes (not many is it?), but these would have been mostly from voters who put a 1 next to PUP above the line.

Interesting that Tasmanians are more likely to fill out all the boxes below the line (good on them...everyone should!), but I'll stick with history, which suggests nationally 97% just vote above the line. There's what? 500,000 people in Tasmania? I can't see there being 21,794 Tassie below the line voters in total, let alone for Lambie.
 
With the election, I say, bring it on. Baird might win, but I think public feeling is running deep against him, and my not be really apparent 'til the day.

I'm off my game today (death of Sir Terry). I'll get back in a few.

The ABC had an article up that says pretty much the exact opposite. OF the 3 most recent leaders to face elections, (Baird, Newman, Napthine) he's by the far the most popular and from other comments is the media is fairly well liked and a moderate conservative and pretty much been favourite to win all along.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-03-...pass-mike-baird-luke-foley-leadership/6302904

But then again we have the contiung stench from the federal government and Baird is pushing an electricity privatisation agenda so it could be close.

There's an argument doing the rounds that the 2PP is overstated by 3% just like in the QLD election. The reason is that we in NSW (like QLD) have optional preferential voting, and Labor is expected to come into peoples calculations for a preference vote this time around rather than simply not getting a preference at all. Shave 3% off the 2PP and we are right in hung parliament territory.

Yes, Bambi Baird rates well, but the only measure that ultimately matters in our system is that 2PP number. Remember also people seem to vote on issues more than just on party lines these days. A Baird defeat was something I wouldn't have even considered a few months ago, but now I'm not so sure exactly how it will play out. The last 2 weeks of the campaign will tell the tale. Baird needs to be making the case for privatisation a lot better than he has to date. He looks vulnerable to a good old fashioned scare campaign.

Another thing worth noting : its incredibly hard to see the Libs getting enough upper house seats to privatise the electricity poles and wires, with Greens, ALP and the Shooters and Fishers dead against it.
 
I think Tasmanian are more likely to vote below the line because we have fewer candidates standing. Our ballot papers are nowhere near as long as those in other states.

It might be true that people who voted Lambie were more likely to have voted above the line. Thinking about my family and friends I only know one person who has admitted to voting above the line.

I think most of Lambie supportors come from the northern parts of the state. The two Hobart electorates are greener than the other three electorates.

Edit to add - also in state elections in Tasmania (and in the ACT) we use the Hare-Clark ballot paper in which there is no voting above the line.
 
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Yeah that could be it.

From memory our Senate ballot paper had 120 boxes last time. Fun when you're wrestling three kids under five while trying to fill out that beast!
 
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