Spoilers The Boys Season 4 Discussion ( Spoilers)

[DarKush]

This was the best episode of the season for me thus far. Finally, it felt like momentum had picked up again, and we got a super throw down to boot. I should've caught on that something was amiss with the rekindling of Hughie and Annie's relationship, which has been put very much on the backburner this season. Her donning the Starlight costume again should've triggered my Spider-sense. I'm glad they also quickly explained what happened and didn't drag that out.

While I didn't like MM stepping aside, I did like more exploration of his relationship with his ex-wife, A-Train giving him advice, and also him coming back. I liked Deep and Black Noir taking on The Boys, which built on their budding friendship from last episode. I also liked Annie's surprise that Black Noir could talk. I also liked the other bonding scene with Deep and Black Noir, and also the surprise when they found out that Sage had relationships with both of them, and she wasn't dumbing herself down for Black Noir. I got a suspicion that Black Noir II isn't making it out of the season, and if so, I feel they've wasted his character. While not as much as the first Black Noir (I know it's the same actor), Black Noir II still has enlivened a lot of the scenes he's been in, even if he's in the background.

With Sage, I also suspected she might not survive the season, but I was expecting the break to come in the finale. I'm sure she's not done with Homelander, though I could also see this exit as a way to write her out of the season to keep her around. She's not really needed for the finale now. I also was expecting A-Train's exposure as the mole to be in the finale. I did like how Homelander was crying over the betrayal, and I think on some level those tears were a bit genuine. A-Train always was there, always did his bidding, and I wonder if in some twisted way Homelander thought there was a kind of genuine loyalty there, though not like how I felt he was genuinely hurt by Black Noir I keeping the truth of his father from him. Then again, maybe Homelander's tears were over him losing his grip. Perhaps he thought he had so knuckled A-Train under that he would never have the guts to stand up to him.

I also liked the reconciliation between Kimiko and Frenchie, though it felt unnecessary to put Frenchie in jail and not explore that. I didn't even miss him last week really.

 

[Samurai8472]

So I take it what Homelander did to Webweaver was a tease of what he did in the Vought lab to those poor employees in episode 4 this season

 

[Aragorn]

The Boys is doing the Star Trek thing where it doesn't take into account the world it created. The in-show excuses for why the protagonists aren't all destroyed by Homelander are paper thin. Or why they didn't kill The Deep, even though they're the supe-killer experts.

 

[CaptainWacky]

So is Hughie being sexually assaulted just going to happen every episode now?

 

[FPAlpha]

The Boys is doing the Star Trek thing where it doesn't take into account the world it created. The in-show excuses for why the protagonists aren't all destroyed by Homelander are paper thin. Or why they didn't kill The Deep, even though they're the supe-killer experts.

Especially with The Boys, where Superheroes like Homelander don't hold back in the slightest.

Homelander knows where their HQ is, they're a nuisance at best to him and we know he can't tolerate the slightest opposition so he could've dealt with the problem on his own and be done with it in a minute ( 5-10 seconds to laser/tear up the humans, 50 seconds to deal with Kimiko and Starlight).

But then we wouldn't have a show or rather it wouldn't have moved past season 1, would it? So the show keeps quiet about that part and doesn't even bring it up in passing like someone casually asking Homelander why he's not dealing with them personally ( back when Homelander was still controlled by Stilwell or Edgar).

With Sage, I also suspected she might not survive the season, but I was expecting the break to come in the finale. I'm sure she's not done with Homelander, though I could also see this exit as a way to write her out of the season to keep her around. She's not really needed for the finale now. I also was expecting A-Train's exposure as the mole to be in the finale. I did like how Homelander was crying over the betrayal, and I think on some level those tears were a bit genuine. A-Train always was there, always did his bidding, and I wonder if in some twisted way Homelander thought there was a kind of genuine loyalty there, though not like how I felt he was genuinely hurt by Black Noir I keeping the truth of his father from him. Then again, maybe Homelander's tears were over him losing his grip. Perhaps he thought he had so knuckled A-Train under that he would never have the guts to stand up to him.

I didn't see Homelander cry, he was more like stunned at the reveal that it was A-Train because he didn't expect him to leave Homelander's paradise ( i really believe that Homelander thinks he's so great that everybody wants to be near him). Sage will come around in some form, i don't think it'll be the last of her especially because she's not handling rejection well from people she considers intellectually below her ( which is everybody if we're true).

One thing i noted though that might come into play later - why did Sage thrown down the notebook with Maeve's cartoon image on the table, i.e. why Maeve? Is she a fan of her or was she the one that could stand up to Homelander in a direct fight, that Sage alluded to that there is one person Homelander can't defeat ( i thought it was Ryan both because he has Homelander's powers and because he's his son)?

In movies and TV shows lingering even a second on an item means it will become important later on, the Deus ex Machina trope.

 

[Starkers]

I figured the one person Homelander can never defeat is himself, or rather his own psychological issues.

I think if it came to it

The notebook screamed "IMPORTANT!" didn't it

The fight with Noir and Deep was fun, and it's nice to be reminded that Deep's powers extend beyond being able to breathe under water and talk to fish!

Talking of Deep allowing TildaOctopussy to die was pretty cold. @The Wormhole like you I've often felt some semblance of pity for Deep, and suspected he might get the redemption arc that A-Train now has, but he's done too many horrible things now, I don't think there's any way back and frankly if they'd finished him off in the Flatiron building I wouldn't have minded one jot, whereas I'd be genuinely gutted if they killed A-Train.

Poor Hughie, that guy is going to end up severely fucked up (if he isn't already) I don't know if it was intentional but I thought the whole thing with his hand being sliced was to imply that the shape-shifter would replace him, if that is the case it was a nice misdirection. The moment 'Annie' put the suit on I should have guessed.

What I don't get is whether the shape-shifter takes on more than just physical traits given that she(?) mentioned dumpster fires and knew the safe combination? Guessing Sage's plan is that Starlight kills Singer, the question is whether Sage will now take action to derail her own plan given Homelander's given her thge brushoff.

The Avenue V stuff was fun. Nice to see Ryan taking a stand.

Talking of Ryan, this may have been explained and I've just forgotten, but how come there is only Ryan? Why aren't there dozens of little Homelanders running/flying around? We know he raped Becca and given he's such a domineering psychopath it's hard to imagine she was the only woman he's assaulted (although oddly at times he's seemed quite uninterested in sex) even setting aside the more "consensual" relationships he's had. Is he basically supposed to be sterile and the creation if Ryan was just a one off?

 

[The Wormhole]

The notebook screamed "IMPORTANT!" didn't it

IIRC, we've seen Sage carrying that notebook around all season. In fact, I think a few weeks ago just before the Seven beat Cameron Coleman to death, Sage and Tek Knight could be seen discussing something within the notebook. So the fact she intentionally made a point of leaving it behind right after Homelander sacked her is what has me intrigued.

 

[Commander Troi]

The leg scene was brutal, even for this show. Poor Hughie! I was glad to see Kimiko and Frenchie re-bond and that they were planning to let the scientist go. I was so proud of Ryan! Becca raised him well.

 

[FPAlpha]

The leg scene was brutal, even for this show. Poor Hughie! I was glad to see Kimiko and Frenchie re-bond and that they were planning to let the scientist go. I was so proud of Ryan! Becca raised him well.

I loved the look of immense pride and love Butcher had when he watched his boy ( for all intents and purposes if not in blood) stand up for what's right.

I always believed children are not born evil but if brought up in a hostile and evil environment chances are very high they'll adopt it and be what they're taught, e.g. if you're brought up by hardcore Nazis and have little outside contact and influence chances are extremely high you'll be a Nazi yourself. It is very hard to break out of that cycle and good for Ryan that he turned the corner, it was touch and go for a while when Homelander was grooming him.

 

[Aragorn]

IIRC, we've seen Sage carrying that notebook around all season. In fact, I think a few weeks ago just before the Seven beat Cameron Coleman to death, Sage and Tek Knight could be seen discussing something within the notebook. So the fact she intentionally made a point of leaving it behind right after Homelander sacked her is what has me intrigued.

Or it could be about who's on the cover of the notebook.

 

[theenglish]

Or the notebook was a decoy? I'm assuming that Sage knew Homelander was going to let her go and it is actually part of her plan. I imagine that the shapeshifter is working for Sage, who now has the evidence she needs to control Neuman. I am not sure what Sage's endgame actually is. Does she want control of The Seven, of Vought, of the government, or does she actually want to take Supers down?

 

[FreezeC77]

The Boys is doing the Star Trek thing where it doesn't take into account the world it created. The in-show excuses for why the protagonists aren't all destroyed by Homelander are paper thin. Or why they didn't kill The Deep, even though they're the supe-killer experts.

The plot armor for the main characters has always been a bit laughable, but this season has really ratcheted it up.

Like, look at the ice rink scene. Homelander *KNEW* it was Hughie by smelling his sweat and attempted to kill him in the vents. Somehow *FAILED* to kill him in the vents and after Hughie got away it was "oh well, can't go off and kill him? even though he knew where they were operating out of?

 

[TedShatner10]

So I take it what Homelander did to Webweaver was a tease of what he did in the Vought lab to those poor employees in episode 4 this season

And the entire Vought security team in the S2 finale. I'm guessing those puppeteers who slunk away from the Vought set never ever came back to work (is it me or is the Vought HQ emptier than in previous seasons?).

- Deeps's and Noir's Bro scene - so stupid but also so funny in a stupid sense

One of the biggest laughs I got from this season is one where the Deep is daydreaming, Homelander snaps him out of it, then he blurts out "I will kill every fish in the ocean if you told me too!" (with Homelander's priceless response).

 

[Commander Troi]

I knew Deep had been going further down a dark road, but I didn't expect him to let Ambrosius die like that. Just awful. However, how Tilda played it out made me chuckle a bit.

 

[Aragorn]

I had no idea Tek Knight was Wolf from Future Man.

 

[diankra]

Hoping it will be OK, but will the next episode run given Saturday's events?

 

[The Wormhole]

Hoping it will be OK, but will the next episode run given Saturday's events?

All things considered, I suspect they probably will. It would probably cause more trouble than it's worth to postpone it, given it's the finale, and there's supposed to be a season 4 retrospective at Comic Con the week after.

 

[diankra]

All things considered, I suspect they probably will. It would probably cause more trouble than it's worth to postpone it, given it's the finale, and there's supposed to be a season 4 retrospective at Comic Con the week after.

I imagine so. If it was network it might get pulled, but streaming is different.

 

[FPAlpha]

I Know it's marked Spoilers but i'll still spoilercode it because it's the season finale and goddamn is it awesome!

Spoiler: Season 4 Finale

Wow, what a ride - this is one hell of a season finale.

Now to get the few negatives out of the way - in broad picture it went down as usual, the Boys build up a plan all season how to defeat/kill Homelander and the other Supes, then shit happens and they fail. This is exactly what went down now too and like a broken record i'm repeating myself - that formula has gotten stale by now. However The Boys really does know how to pull off a season finale even if the season itself wasn't that great so i can't imagine what the final season holds with so many plot and character points left open or being introduced.

Just to get it out of my head in no particular order:

- Kimiko and Frenchie getting together
I'm just a softie shipper and they have been such an amazing and tender couple. Both broken people who have found each other. As much as i love Annie and Hughie together Kimiko and Frenchie are just the best couple in the show, Honest to god it also took me seconds to realize Kimiko was screaming at the end when they led Frenchie away

- Annie vs. "Annie" fight
Awesome to the max and real Annie pulling out the bitch badass was just so satisfying to see after what Shifter Annie did, especially to/with Hughie. It's a little unfair for her to rip into Hughie but understandable when emotions runs high but her extending the olive branch in what was basically a Sorry i tore you a new one had me laughing, especially Hughie's "Fuck yeah Hughie" to himself

- Sage coming back and revealing there's a Phase Two?? Damn girl - and i continue to believe there's more to the Maeve notebook than what is currently presented. After how the season ended i firmly believe Maeve will come back for the season finale for one all out massive blowout battle.

- Karl Urban 'nuff said
His farewell to Hughie was just a masterclass in acting and direction. No music, just a camera on his face and Urban acting out the farewell to Hughie. A friend saying his goodbye to another friend.

- Ashley, Soldier Boy, A-Train, Ryan

Ashley, the greatest coward in the show, is a Supe now out of self defense, we don't know yet what her powers will be. Soldier Boy is back and he'll be able to buddy up with his Supernatural friend in the next season. I wonder if Kripke will include a little easter egg for the fans of this show. A-Train didn't appear in this episode, so he's still on the table ( i thought he'd die in this finale).

And once again humans have learned nothing and they're making the same mistakes they did with Homelander, using them as tools and not as real human beings and it comes back to bite them in the ass as it did with Ryan. Instead of treating him as a human and allowing him free will to develop ( risky i know with the strength of Ryan) they cage him up and provoke the exact reaction they were afraid of and why they wanted to cage him up in the first place - a chicken and egg situation. Now Ryan is free and has to come to terms with the truth about Homelander and how he will react to it. I figure in season 5 he'll try to get confirmation or confirmation will be brought to him as Homelander starts to kill openly being completely unhinged and not held back by puny laws. At this point Ryan will have to make a decision where he stands and he could actually be the one wild card Sage was afraid of that could derail all plans.

- The Plot in general

From Homelander simply exposing Neuman and killing her entire plan in a second, her being shitscared and asking Hughie and The Boys for help to Tumor Butcher ripping her apart was just a wild ride. As i said weeks before Sage is probably the most dangerous Supe out there because she is subtle and intelligent and at the right level of power can do more damage than Homelander ever could. It remains to be seen what her Phase Two is and i am still not entirely convinced she's evil at all but we'll see in season 5 if Phase Two is meant to remove all Supes, get them into power forever or something completely different. Still can't get over her notebook, why has that become an obsession for me? It'll be a red herring in the end knowing my luck

Well, was that a coup at all or just the system at work? Disregarding the Supe element if a VP Elect turns out to have a massive secret that would derail her eligibility, the President Elect secretly being filmed talking about killing his VP Elect - what would happen in reality? The 25th is not applicable in this situation as it only covers the president not being able to exert his executive power ( such as being sick, unconsious or undergoing surgery for example), so something else needed to happen to pass power onto the Speaker. Have to research that a bit but how they did in the Boys couldn't happen in reality i think, at least not while observing the Constitution.

So where do we stand now at the end? The Boys are dismantled and rounded up, only Annie could escape for now. Vought has been cleansed off people who could be a danger to the Supes in what is foreshadowing what could/maybe will happen to the general population in some form. Supes have now taken over the US and Homelander is basically the President - an unhingend, narcissistic, vindictive person with the personal power to level buildings and turn everyone to ash.

All told after a lukewarm season The Boys finish very strong and have set up one hell of a playing field for the final season. I can't wait!

 

[TedShatner10]

S4's finale was smarter and more subtle than S3's superficially explosive finale that resided too much on Butcher holding the "idiot ball", and our heroes hit a huge wall on a bigger scale (like they did with Numan in Ep. 1).

Agree that Season 4 was a mixed bag wheel spinner (not unlike S3 of Breaking Bad, IMO) and Vought International has essentiallly ended as the company like it was introduced as in S1, it feels more like a giant shell now that's wrapped around the more informal Homelander regime that slowly emerged immediately after Sam Edgar's ejection from his position.

Spoiler

I have a head canon that most of the Vought employees on the list just didn't turn up to work at Vought Tower for weeks already and the Vought security mooks that assisted Homelander's powered henchmen in capturing the Boys were mainly fresh recruits from his MAGA-esque movement, etc.

Even the events of Gen V and S4 Ep. 4 showed signs of "Right arm doesn't know what the Left arm is doing" within the gigantic Vought organisation under Homelander's ham handed take over...