Spoilers The Boys Season 4 Discussion ( Spoilers)

[FPAlpha]

I felt this episode should've given us more than it did. I had already seen the speculation about Kessler, but the episode treated it like it was some earth-shattering deal, even though the internet had already figured that out.

I thought The Boys did walk around Tek Knight's mansion way too easily as well. And I thought more would happen with Kimiko's lost phone, but that was forgotten. When Milk shot Sage why didn't Homelander hear that?

Homelander, Sage, and Neuman's plan makes little sense to me. She could just use her powers to assume the presidency after the inauguration without needing all those other people or even needing to evoke the 25th Amendment necessarily. I wonder if the real purpose of that scene was just to give The Boys the evidence they will use later to take Neuman down.

I did like some of the character moments. I liked Webweaver's suit, though I they couldn't resist being juvenile with his back web shooter gag, and also couldn't stop themselves from pushing the envelope or buttons with the sex dungeon scenes. I also liked when Tek Knight tried to buddy up with Homelander, and Homelander's put down as well. I was liking the twisted Batman/Superman vibe though. Speaking of twisted, I felt they went a bit overboard with Tek Knight. I wish they had toned him down a bit and kept him around because his powers make him very dangerous.

I have no idea what Deep has in mind for Black Noir II, but putting them two together was unexpected, and also gives Black Noir II more to do, which is good.

Concerning Homelanders/Sage's plan i fear it hits far to close to home in our reality. I don't want to veer off into conspiracy theory but it sounds awfully close to discussions that must have already happened in the US today behind the scenes in just such rooms that resulted in Project 2025 and the like. As it stands in the Boys universe there is still a large divide socially as it exists today in the US and thw world in general, which means they can't roll out measures Putin style yet.

They still have to be careful and measured, as evidenced by the other high rollers in the room, who immediately pointed out the problems their movement would face that they can't just steamroll Homelander style. So they have to take it step by step, invoking the 25th is a way to direct power grab. It's like boiling a frog to use that analogy - you increase the temperature slowly until it's too late, you can't drop it into already boiling water.

However i think you are right as a scene later shows The Boys listening to the audio recording of Neuman, i think that will play into the season finale and possibly lead into 5th and final season ( thank god, a season too late if you ask me).

 

[Guy Gardener]

Concerning Homelanders/Sage's plan i fear it hits far to close to home in our reality. I don't want to veer off into conspiracy theory but it sounds awfully close to discussions that must have already happened in the US today behind the scenes in just such rooms that resulted in Project 2025 and the like. As it stands in the Boys universe there is still a large divide socially as it exists today in the US and thw world in general, which means they can't roll out measures Putin style yet.

They still have to be careful and measured, as evidenced by the other high rollers in the room, who immediately pointed out the problems their movement would face that they can't just steamroll Homelander style. So they have to take it step by step, invoking the 25th is a way to direct power grab. It's like boiling a frog to use that analogy - you increase the temperature slowly until it's too late, you can't drop it into already boiling water.

However i think you are right as a scene later shows The Boys listening to the audio recording of Neuman, i think that will play into the season finale and possibly lead into 5th and final season ( thank god, a season too late if you ask me).

Project 2025 has a different plan.

They explain who they are, and they assume that %51 of America has exactly the same character and will support them.

Evil, but honest.

Meanwhile you got the billionaires in this show thinking that they can make one more nickle than last year, if they put a puppet in charge with out asking a few questions about who they are and what they really want.

They can't be that dumb.

Sure they are smarter than Homelander, and Sage was in a time out, but Newman played them because she is one of them, if she is still in dad's will.

 

[FPAlpha]

Project 2025 has a different plan.

They explain who they are, and they assume that %51 of America has exactly the same character and will support them.

Evil, but honest.

Meanwhile you got the billionaires in this show thinking that they can make one more nickle than last year, if they put a puppet in charge with out asking a few questions about who they are and what they really want.

They can't be that dumb.

Sure they are smarter than Homelander, and Sage was in a time out, but Newman played them because she is one of them, if she is still in dad's will.

Project 2025 and the cabal in Boys have the same direction, simple as that. What Project 2025 is about will ultimately lead to a very dark USA, The Boys is just skipping a few steps and includes Superheroes or rather Supervillains.

The Boys just hits the audience over the head with a sledgehammer basically screaming to pay attention to real world affairs, something good science fiction and political satire does often though more subtle. However since the masses are incapable of recognizing subtlety it is time for the sledgehammer.

 

[DarKush]

Concerning Homelanders/Sage's plan i fear it hits far to close to home in our reality. I don't want to veer off into conspiracy theory but it sounds awfully close to discussions that must have already happened in the US today behind the scenes in just such rooms that resulted in Project 2025 and the like. As it stands in the Boys universe there is still a large divide socially as it exists today in the US and thw world in general, which means they can't roll out measures Putin style yet.

They still have to be careful and measured, as evidenced by the other high rollers in the room, who immediately pointed out the problems their movement would face that they can't just steamroll Homelander style. So they have to take it step by step, invoking the 25th is a way to direct power grab. It's like boiling a frog to use that analogy - you increase the temperature slowly until it's too late, you can't drop it into already boiling water.

However i think you are right as a scene later shows The Boys listening to the audio recording of Neuman, i think that will play into the season finale and possibly lead into 5th and final season ( thank god, a season too late if you ask me).

The way I see it is that Neuman (Homelander or Sage) don't need any of these people to gain power. Neuman could just have Singer die tragically of "natural causes" and become president Constitutionally. Few would be the wiser, and Starlight who I'm sure would know differently has for now been discredited and Firecracker would be salivating

Spoiler

(or is it lactating?)

at the prospect of swatting her down on Vought News. Most people would believe that Singer died of natural causes, just like there wasn't any ruffling over the death of Singer's first vice-presidential choice. Now, for them to hold power, that's where I see that maybe they need to reach out, but that's step two, they don't need them beforehand for Neuman to become president quickly.

 

[Anson Mount Seleya]

Seriously though, doesn't everyone have an imaginary JDM in their head? Guys? Guys?

I certainly won't deny it.

She could just use her powers to assume the presidency after the inauguration without needing all those other people or even needing to evoke the 25th Amendment necessarily.

This was addressed earlier in the season. Neuman doesn't want any kind of direct link to her removing Singer from Presidency, which is why she isn't going to pop his head after being sworn in. Likewise, she doesn't want it to look like a coup to the general public, so playing the long game of discrediting him to the point that invoking the 25th Amendment looks necessary is the best way to go about that.

And yes, Kimiko losing her phone was just done for the sake of drama. Since Frenchie isn't around, without a phone she has no effective way to communicate with anyone. She'll likely have a new phone next week, unless Frenchie somehow gets out of prison.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Project 2025 and the cabal in Boys have the same direction, simple as that. What Project 2025 is about will ultimately lead to a very dark USA, The Boys is just skipping a few steps and includes Superheroes or rather Supervillains.

The Boys just hits the audience over the head with a sledgehammer basically screaming to pay attention to real world affairs, something good science fiction and political satire does often though more subtle. However since the masses are incapable of recognizing subtlety it is time for the sledgehammer.

Project 2025 wants a theocracy ruled by a council of old white men, where all "deviancy" is swept away under the rug or into the shadows.

Homelander wants to be a God. He wants a ruling class of compound V users, and then a proletariat working in factories numbering 99 percent of the human race, including the disenfranchised billionaires who got him there.

Newman just wants to secure the safety of her daughter.

Sage wants to go back to her room and read.

 

[FPAlpha]

Project 2025 wants a theocracy ruled by a council of old white men, where all "deviancy" is swept away under the rug or into the shadows.

Homelander wants to be a God. He wants a ruling class of compound V users, and then a proletariat working in factories numbering 99 percent of the human race, including the disenfranchised billionaires who got him there.

Newman just wants to secure the safety of her daughter.

Sage wants to go back to her room and read.

Project 2025 is about power and control, religion is just a tool to achieve it much like the cabal in Boys are using social media for example to influence public opinion ( and religion pandering in our reality to get these people on board).

Concerning Sage i think after this episode it's clear she wants revenge - she started out with good intentions and used her intelligence for good but was carelessly rejected and it cost the life of someone close to her so something broke inside her. It's good that they gave her some kind of motivation because up until then it didn't make much sense for her to just be evil.

It's all a big mess with everybody coming in from a different angle and having different goals and you just know it'll blow up soon. A-Train is on his full on redemption arc and if he doesn't die in the season finale i'm sure he'll switch sides, Neuman might have her own plan ( would she be able to pop Homelanders head?) and Homelander is just losing it.

The season finale might be one crazy free for all.

 

[Anson Mount Seleya]

Neuman might have her own plan ( would she be able to pop Homelanders head?)

Unknown. Even Homelander himself has expressed curiosity as to whether such a thing would be possible.

 

[FreezeC77]

Project 2025 is about power and control, religion is just a tool to achieve it much like the cabal in Boys are using social media for example to influence public opinion ( and religion pandering in our reality to get these people on board).

Concerning Sage i think after this episode it's clear she wants revenge - she started out with good intentions and used her intelligence for good but was carelessly rejected and it cost the life of someone close to her so something broke inside her. It's good that they gave her some kind of motivation because up until then it didn't make much sense for her to just be evil.

It's all a big mess with everybody coming in from a different angle and having different goals and you just know it'll blow up soon. A-Train is on his full on redemption arc and if he doesn't die in the season finale i'm sure he'll switch sides, Neuman might have her own plan ( would she be able to pop Homelanders head?) and Homelander is just losing it.

The season finale might be one crazy free for all.

Ever since Gen V where we find out Neuman's abilities are based around blood-control like Marie's, I thought Neuman was just grooming Marie to keep her loyal and around because she intended to have Marie take the blame for Neuman assassinating the President with a head-pop.

Although with the way Homelander is going he may just raze the White House.

 

[Commander Troi]

I really liked the Wealthy White Folks peppering Homelander with questions and him being totally unprepared to answer. This is why he needs Sage. Having her out of commission forced Neumann to commit to this whole thing, even with her reservations.

Can we take a minute to feel for Sameer? I figured he was going to say any virus strong enough to get Homelander would go viral and kill all supers, but I was surprised and pleased to see that his feelings for Neumann and her daughter are strong enough to keep him from making it (so far).

Becca and JDM being the angel and demon on Butcher's shoulder was nice.

 

[TedShatner10]

It's become apparent Homelander has gotten very mentally stunted as a 'supe by the start of S4 in comparison to when he was more in his prime back in S1, and was trying to keep composed amongst the so-called "high society" (when intruders were clearly in the compound), plus he's still tethered to his crumbling public reputation, etc.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

I just started season 2.

His Giancarlo Esposito played anyone other than versions of Gus Fring other than his two appearances in Community since he first played Gus Fring?

 

[Starkers]

His role in MaXXXine is very un-Fring like. His role in Kaleidoscope was different to Fring as well. That's two examples off the top of my head. Obviously you've got Stan Edgar and Moff Gideon on the other side of the coin.

 

[TedShatner10]

His role in MaXXXine is very un-Fring like. His role in Kaleidoscope was different to Fring as well. That's two examples off the top of my head. Obviously you've got Stan Edgar and Moff Gideon on the other side of the coin.

He also depicted a very different and mellow character in a supporting role in the 3rd MazerRunner film.

A niggling growing flaw with Kripke and his writer's room is they never really took the "buttlerfly effect" fully into account as The Boys universe of the series carried on and matured - with Vought International as big and omniversal as it is depicted in the setting, Homelander could probably personally buy and sell ExxonMobil, Apple Inc, and Berkshire-Hathaway several times over (the corporations Neuman mentioned as she courted the other US elites just outside Vought's influence that Homelander needed on his side).

ExxonMobil, Apple, Nestlé, Disney, and Berkshire-Hathaway under Vought International's domination as a multi-trillion megacorporation (where there's Vought Petroleum, Vought hospitality, Vought mass media, Vought cosmetics, the Vought Rifle Association, Vought retail, Vought Fresh Farms, Vought electronics, and Vought-a-Burger, etc) would just not be the same as in our TL or maybe not even exist altogether (outcompeted or merged into Vought).

Say what you will about the 2009 movie and 2019 series of Watchmen, but based on their source material, the writers and producers put more thought into the broader world building, with divergent worlds that feel a bit more alive (they're A+ while The Boys series writers and production are C).

It doesn't destroy my enjoyment of the show and I like most of the Vought branding (plus there's an old photo of Soldier Boy trying to get into the pants of a young Princess Diana, LOL), but the thought put into the show's fluff can get too undercooked.

 

[Starkers]

I've finally got around to watching Veronica Mars. Onto the second season and who shows up? Only Firecracker!

 

[the G-man]

A niggling growing flaw with Kripke and his writer's room is they never really took the "buttlerfly effect" fully into account as The Boys universe of the series carried on and matured

Something I thought the original comics did reasonably well.

 

[Anson Mount Seleya]

Holy shit, Vought Sesame Street was hilarious! Right off the bat when Ryan asked the A-Train puppet why was he upset, and the answer was "Antifa" I burst laughing and continued laughing uncontrollably all throughout the bits at the start and end of the episode.

And damn, shit's definitely getting real this week, with everything set in place for what is sure to be an epic finale.

I am continually impressed with how this show manages to make the Deep be so repugnant and yet I can't help but feel some sympathy for him all the same.

 

[Starry-eyed]

Compared to other seasons this season hasn't been hitting the mark & its due to the pacing & writing choices.

 

[FPAlpha]

Compared to other seasons this season hasn't been hitting the mark & its due to the pacing & writing choices.

Agree - for example Frenchie's storyline this season. They build up his guilt over several episodes, he turns himself in and spends one episode in prison and suddenly he's out and explained with one side sentence. What?

As of right now this is the weakest season for me because it is the same again ( much like i'm turning in circles it seems stating the same each week here), just amped up with more gore and increasing lack of subtlety depicting US far right conservatives/MAGA's. It seems like The Boys have a new weapon to use for next weeks finale, they will try and fail again to kill Homelander and there will be one or more characters leaving the show ( i'm betting on A-Train and Deep dying) just because they can't kill off Homelander because it might wreck the show but this may be what actually wrecks the show prematurely.

At least next season they can't pull this off being the last season, there's has to be some kind of resolution.

Some good bits were in it though

- Deeps's and Noir's Bro scene - so stupid but also so funny in a stupid sense

- Kimiko's mutism reveal and her tender scene with Frenchie. I love both of them together, even if they may never get together to be a couple but that friendship is so deep and well earned it just warms my heart. 2 broken souls keeping each other together.

- MM with a minigun - 'nuff said

 

[Anson Mount Seleya]

It seems like The Boys have a new weapon to use for next weeks finale, they will try and fail again to kill Homelander

Doubtful. They state in the final scene of this week's the virus is still too weak to do anything to Homelander, though it could pose a threat to Neuman. So most likely next week they're giving it their all to take out Neuman, she is the more present threat anyway. Whether or not they succeed, we wait until next week to find out.

one or more characters leaving the show ( i'm betting on A-Train and Deep dying)

I doubt A-Train's going to be killed. When explaining the decision to let Maeve live happily ever after at the end of S3, Kripke said it was because he actually does want the show to present a moral universe and people who choose to do the right thing should be justly rewarded. With that in mind, I doubt they'd put so much effort into a redemption arc for A-Train this year just to have it end with him dying.

Deep could die, though I personally would be surprised if he did.