I'm surprised we haven't seen much chatter about that. Yet.
Spoilers The Acolyte
- Thread starter Gordie
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He seems to. He tells Mae they are going to find her master and Osha. Which at least implies that he doesn't think they are still where they were last seen.
Also foreshadowed by the exchange between Osha and The Stranger. She tells him Sol will find her, as he's done it before. Sol can sense her across the distance of space because of the connection between them. (And possibly because Osha is a giant, shining beacon in the Force, if Qimir's comment about her power can be taken at face value.)
A much quieter, more introspective episode, and as expected after last week's bloodbath. Not a lot of questions answered, but some interesting hints.
Probably the biggest one is Qimir's age; how long is "a long time ago" exactly? Are we talking decades, centuries, or millennia?
I'll get what is probably the wildest possibility out of the way and suggest that it could be that he's the original Sith. The Jedi Knight that split from the Order thousands of years ago, along with about 50 other Jedi followers, and was ultimately betrayed and killed by his own disciples.
Unlike Bane, I don't think Lucas ever named this character and the EU had already made up it's own version of events. Indeed the only source for this we can reasonably trace back to Lucas outside of the odd interview is the Phantom Menace novelization.
The next, only slightly less wild possibility (but not by much) is of course Darth Bane himself. Both possibilities present the same problem; how is he even still alive, much less not a wrinkly old husk of a human being? (assuming he's human, of course.) Moreover we've seen Bane's tomb on Moraband, so someone clearly thought him dead enough to build a sarcophagus.
Personally I don't think I buy either possibility. It's very late in the season to suddenly reveal such a major character that only about 7% of the audience has even heard of, let alone one of the handful of even more obscure Sith names, AND account for how he's still alive somehow. Much more likely (as is almost always the case) that The Stranger is an original character.
Taken at face value; he seems to have either been a Jedi Padawan or Knight that was kicked out of the Order for some reason (probably the whole "I wanna use my powers how I feel like!" attitude), or an initiate that simply washed out of the Padawan trials. How he got the scar is an open question still, but the most likely possibilities are; an 'Anakin/Obi-Wan on Mustafa' type scenario, or a 'Ventress/Dooku over Sullust' type scenario.
The implication that he's way older that one would presume is still a mystery though. If he's telling the truth; whatever happened between him and the Jedi would have to have been long enough ago that even a seasoned Master like Sol wouldn't recognise him. Could be that it's a Dagan Gera type situation where he'd been in stasis for an unusually extended period. Maybe even frozen in carbonite, which admittedly would tie-in to the sensory depravation aspect of his technique.
It might also be a Lord Momin type of thing; and if so, Osha is going to regret putting on that mask!
Whatever the details, this is feeling a lot less like an apprentice recruiting their own acolyte to help them take on their master, and much more like a rejected apprentice looking to start a legacy all of their own.
Probably the biggest one is Qimir's age; how long is "a long time ago" exactly? Are we talking decades, centuries, or millennia?
I'll get what is probably the wildest possibility out of the way and suggest that it could be that he's the original Sith. The Jedi Knight that split from the Order thousands of years ago, along with about 50 other Jedi followers, and was ultimately betrayed and killed by his own disciples.
Unlike Bane, I don't think Lucas ever named this character and the EU had already made up it's own version of events. Indeed the only source for this we can reasonably trace back to Lucas outside of the odd interview is the Phantom Menace novelization.
Personally I don't think I buy either possibility. It's very late in the season to suddenly reveal such a major character that only about 7% of the audience has even heard of, let alone one of the handful of even more obscure Sith names, AND account for how he's still alive somehow. Much more likely (as is almost always the case) that The Stranger is an original character.
Taken at face value; he seems to have either been a Jedi Padawan or Knight that was kicked out of the Order for some reason (probably the whole "I wanna use my powers how I feel like!" attitude), or an initiate that simply washed out of the Padawan trials. How he got the scar is an open question still, but the most likely possibilities are; an 'Anakin/Obi-Wan on Mustafa' type scenario, or a 'Ventress/Dooku over Sullust' type scenario.
The implication that he's way older that one would presume is still a mystery though. If he's telling the truth; whatever happened between him and the Jedi would have to have been long enough ago that even a seasoned Master like Sol wouldn't recognise him. Could be that it's a Dagan Gera type situation where he'd been in stasis for an unusually extended period. Maybe even frozen in carbonite, which admittedly would tie-in to the sensory depravation aspect of his technique.
For those that don't know, there's a line in an early draft of 'Revenge Return of the Jedi' (in the ultimatly deleted sandstorm scene) where Han describes being frozen thusly:-
Which incidentally also made it into the James Kahn novelization.
Whatever the details, this is feeling a lot less like an apprentice recruiting their own acolyte to help them take on their master, and much more like a rejected apprentice looking to start a legacy all of their own.
Well, not at first anyway. By the end, that's pretty much what he had deteriorated into. Malicious and cruel.
Let's just hope Osha kept a back-up of his memory!
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I too was under the impression it was his Jedi master that tried to kill him. As for what would would cause a Jedi to try to kill their Padawan, they probably just sensed an inking of the dark side in Qimir. As we saw in TLJ, that's all it took for Luke to attempt to kill his own nephew.
Indeed, the way it's played out I can easily accept Sol was distracted by grief over losing all his friends and that's why he didn't catch on right away.
With Qimir dropping the age mystery this week, and showing he knows a bit of chemistry in past eps, my guess is that he's Plagueis. It's probably a popular opinion, but it does seem to add up and works within the timeline (if Qimir's chemistry skills are indeed extending his life a bit)
I forgot to mention it before, but I assume I'm not the only one struck by how similar "Unknown Planet" is to Ahch-To? Granted we didn't see or hear any Porgs, but those little grey elephant nosed things don't look entirely dissimilar to think Luke was milking on the rocks.
If that's the case then Qimir's connection to the Jedi may indeed go way waaaaay back! Not that we know when the Jedi abandoned Ahch-To, but it's got to be on the order of *thousands* of years.
Also forgot to say that I'm not entirely sure what Sol is up to by the end of the episode. I mean I know we're obviously heading into a flashback episode with his version of events, but why shut-off his transponder and jump away if he truly intends to face the high council?
With only one more episode left that's not mostly a flashback, I'm very curious as to how they're going to wrap this all up!
If that's the case then Qimir's connection to the Jedi may indeed go way waaaaay back! Not that we know when the Jedi abandoned Ahch-To, but it's got to be on the order of *thousands* of years.
Also forgot to say that I'm not entirely sure what Sol is up to by the end of the episode. I mean I know we're obviously heading into a flashback episode with his version of events, but why shut-off his transponder and jump away if he truly intends to face the high council?
With only one more episode left that's not mostly a flashback, I'm very curious as to how they're going to wrap this all up!
A lot of it is Kathleen Kennedy, I would expect. She fundamentally enraged the party-faithful of the fanbase by vapidly saying that "there is no source material" to draw from for new stories in the franchise like Harry Potter, for example. Her exact quote:
With literally hundreds of novels, comic books, video games and the like that have remained untapped for decades - much longer than Harry Potter, this is just a demonstrably untrue, and quite befuddling, statement. I'm not entirely sure where she thought she was coming from when she said that, but you can't un-ring that bell. I suspect that the "hate" for Disney-based Star Wars projects will abate once she steps down. She is generally perceived as someone who doesn't respect the IP and, as such, should not be its "champion".
At the end of the day, I don't really much care either way, but this is the core of the issue as I have seen it. Once she goes away, I would wager that attitudes will improve.
But none of those are source material.
They are if they say they are. They just choose not to use them. What do you consider source material, if not books, comics and video games that KK claims to not exist for Star Wars?
And please don't make this another rhetorical exercise in circular thoughtful contrarianism. I don't have the patience today.
And please don't make this another rhetorical exercise in circular thoughtful contrarianism. I don't have the patience today.
Because they're not from Lucas. Given Lucas' attitude towards the EU it isn't surprising to this attitude prevails on the EU.
It's not like comics because Star Wars didn't start as a comic or a book. So treating material that came after the fact , not from the original author, as source material is very strange to me.
Possibly. The difference is that we actually know what the islands of Ahch-To look like, and they look *almost exactly* like that!
Granted, this may simply due to the fact that both this show and TLJ filmed on location in the UK, and most islands off or near the UK coast (that aren't made mostly of chalk) look pretty much like that. Nevertheless; Ahsoka managed to make the Southern California brush look like Dartmoor, so if they wanted they could certainly have made the island look more distinct.
Also; the Darth Plagueis novel isn't canon, so it doesn't really matter overmuch, and even if they are going with Bal'demnic; who's to say Bal'demnic can't be the modern name for Ahch-To? Places getting new names for one reason or another isn't unusual, especially over a time-span of in the order of tens of millennia. Indeed, half the reason Ahch-To was considered lost could simply have been because it became misnamed on all the charts.
If that's what enraged people, then people are either idiots that don't understand words, or are wilfully misinterpreting the intent of that statement.
What she said was correct; there is no definitive source material for Star Wars to adapt in the sense that there is for 'Harry Potter', or 'The Lord of the Rings', or 'Sherlock Holmes'. There's just what George did, and a whole bunch of licenced fan fiction that they can cherry-pick or not as they see fit, as it should me.
Also; are people really so deluded as to think that George would have treated the post-RotJ EU any differently than he did literality anything else in the EU? Do they seriously think that *anyone* at Lucasfilm, regardless of leadership, or what studio owns them would have decided to directly adapt 'Heir to the Empire', or 'Dark Empire' for the big screen? It was never going to happen, and good thing too. That would have been terrible, and a financial disaster.
The short answer is yes.
Cool your jets, friend. A question was asked upthread and I answered it.If someone like KK is chosen to be the spokesperson for Disney's Star Wars property, wouldn't it make some kind of sense for her words to be carefully chosen so as not to alienate huge swaths of their fanbase, idiots or not? Every fanbase has its loud and vociferous party-faithful. To deny they exist is folly and feigning shock at the reaction to making such a statement is disingenuous. If she meant that the only official source material in existence comes from Lucas, then yes, that is obviously done and over with. But she never included that little caveat in her statement and it really comes down to a minor semantic difference - something that I know fandom loves to use to mire down debates like this. Okay, fine, there's no more Lucas-originating stuff. So what?? Outside the OT, was it really that insanely awesome to start with? There's tons of other stuff out there they could draw from. Instead she made it sound like Star Wars is completely bereft of any new ideas, and they need to work super hard to come up with new stories instead of maybe [GASP!] paying someone who's already done a cool story in the EU and adapt that to the screen. Seriously, how hard is that to wrap one's brain around? Sounds like the decision was made out of ego rather than pragmatism and I wonder who the "idiots" really are...
I believe people are. There has become more and more of a concerted effort to make Kennedy out as a boogeyman of sorts and I don't envy her position.
Basically, she somehow has to remain faithful to Lucas' vision of Star Wars, while trying to generate new ideas and move the franchise forward while making money under Disney's directorship. It's serving multiple masters while pleasing an unpleasable fanbase.
I think that part of it is simply that Lucas didn't regard the Legends EU very highly, and can be found on record as saying as much. I strongly suspect that colors a lot of decision making, as well as the fact that there is nothing authoritative in the EU to grab on to, despite fans insistence that the EU was an amazing piece of work, except for that one novel. You know the one
It also wasn't KK's or Disney's idea to wipe the EU. The plan was already in place before the buyout, had George Lucas made his sequels instead of selling it still would have happened.
Though I'm sure KK had to approve it.
Though I'm sure KK had to approve it.
I agree. Or at the very least inspired by it.
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Wheel-spinning is the word I was looking for. Another poor and frankly, embarrassing episode. After so many characters getting killed off last week we return to the jedi ship for some light comedy. Lots of scenes going nowhere with loads of wipe cuts inbetween to more scenes going nowhere.
100% spot on. The vast (and largely completely shitty) EU isn't source material for anything except itself. It's ancillary material. They're derivatives, but they're not the source.
This shouldn't be a hard concept to grasp.
Ditching the EU was one of the best things Disney did when it acquired star wars. No future stories should be bound to that, whether you like it or not.
If you're a creator and you want to pepper in a few references or borrow an idea here and there, fine. But a clean slate was the best, nay, the only approach going forward.
And, dear god, if there are "fans" out there who can't grasp or get over this concept, then their childish tantrums don't even deserve to be a part of the conversation.
"It'll be better when Kennedy is gone!" Nah, it'll be better when the toxic fans are gone. Which, sadly, will be never.
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