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Spoilers The Acolyte

I recently finished the Wilson translation of The Iliad, and one of the points she made in the translator's notes was the different words for different types of anger, starting with one that opens the poem:

The word “mēnis” is elsewhere used of the anger of gods, not humans: Only the fury of Achilles, the mortal son of a goddess, is deadly enough in its consequences, for his own side as well as for the enemy, to qualify as “wrath,” not merely “anger.” “...Mēnis” is not ordinary anger or normal human rage. Angry men in battle kill a few other men, if they are skillful, brave and lucky. Only divinely backed “wrath” could cause the level of destruction that Achilles brings about.... (Source)​
The conclusion of her full introduction comes to mind with this discussion, on the higher purpose of drama and storytelling in general. Basic aspects of the human condition are universal, and the world we inhabit is complex and, at times, inexplicable. Stories allow use to explore events and emotions in a safe way, paradoxically by heightening them beyond the everyday context, and conforming them to structures of cause and effect, thematic and narrative unity. It let's us perceive life in a way that has meaning, and not just as a bunch of stuff that keeps happening one thing after another. This distinction doesn't apply quite so much in the age of serialization, but I once heard the fundamental difference between a movie and a television show is a movie will generally be about the most important event in the main character's life, while a TV show is necessarily less transformative to its main character because it's about something that happens to them about two dozen times a year, over and over again. Jodie Foster in Silence of the Lambs is going to go through a lot more solving a crime than David Caruso in a random episode of CSI: Miami.

Whether it was effective or not is debatable, and will vary with the critic and the audience, the events of The Acolyte were meant to be emotionally epic in scale. "Apocalyptic" might even be the better term, with its sense of "revelation." While it would ideally elicit sympathy and pathos and could be analogized (loosely!) to events in your own life, I don't get how you can look at it and go, "This story of mistaken identity, murder, hidden failure festering into disaster, revenge, betrayal, and wrath is pretty everyday stuff, I don't see how this could be taken as unusually affecting for the people involved." A lady split a baby in two, turned into a smoke monster, and got stabbed by a man who then adopted her kid! This is not "For me, it was Tuesday"-level stuff.
A very well written and thought out post. I agree completely, and think that there are many times that the short hand way of speaking that is often used colloquially does a disservice to the clear emotions that are being experienced.

It's one of the downsides of the field I work in is that I see the use of mental health diagnostic language for pretty every day things. "Oh, I'm so depressed!" is common language I hear and it grates because depression is a serious condition that actually makes difficult to function in the day to day life, not just that you couldn't get the latest tech or something like that. It just doesn't work that way.

There are many other examples I can think of but your point is well taken. The level of emotions is extremely heightened, Ahab level driven to deal with, and ultimately end up being the undoing of many. It's why I look at things like the Stoics and their efforts to not be driven by the excesses of pain or pleasure, but reframing an emotion to manage it.

In this story, it was all about the pain of loss.
 
Instead of “They’ve brainwashed you,” Ep 5 could have gone down like this:

Mae: Sol never told you what happened to our mother.
Osha: He told me enough. He told me you killed her!
Mae: No. Sol killed our mother.
Osha: No. No. That’s not true. That’s impossible!
Mae: Search your feelings. You know it to be true.
Osha: No! No! No!
Mae: Osha. You can destroy Qimir. He has foreseen this. Join me, and together we can be the Sith, as sisters. Come with me. It is the only way.
Osha: I’m going to jump from here to my death!
Mae: We’re standing on the ground.
Osha: Poodoo.
Mae: Come on, let’s go. We have work to do.
Osha: Uh… okay.
 
Completed my rewatch and found it once again completely enjoyable and an interesting psychological tale. Sol's guilt was a lot of the driving force, and his inability to let go of a lot of his preconceived notions were ultimately his undoing.

The action was decently done though at times overly long and drawn out.

I think there is plenty of story to tell, a lot of rewatch value and this show offered a different insight in to the Jedi life. I think those who say the Jedi are the bad guys or shown as villains miss a lot of the point.
 
1) This whole Lightsaber bleeding thing is an attempt at Harry Potterisation of Star Wars.

It's a very Harry Potter-esque.
They want to give force users a connection to their Lightsabers like Wizards have to their wands.

In the novelization of episode 6 Luke did simply grow a crystal for his new Lightsaber in Obi-Wan Kenobi's old furnace that he had in his hut.


2) This is now the second time that in a mainline entry for Disney Star Wars we see this weird perverted trope of female erotic fiction that a women falls in love with a (mass) murderer (Rey and Kylo Ren in the Disney prequel trilogy. We also see this in other IPs. Lord of the Rings The Rings of Power is shipping of Galadriel and Sauron).


3)
Just finished the last ep. Except for showing us how corrupt and flawed the Jedi of the era are, I can't figure out exactly what this show was supposed to be about.

The show does not blame the Jedi as an organization or the Jedi ideology for what happened.

The show puts the blame for what happened squarely on individual Jedi because of their personal failings and not living up to the ideals of the Jedi. The four Jedi on Brendok are not following orders form the Jedi Council and they and Leslye Headland's wife are hiding information from the Jedi Council.
The Jedi Council is not depicted as corrupt.

The show blames Sol and Torbin for being total emotional messes who don't live up to the Jedi ideals and Indara and Leslye Headland's wife for being deceitful, conspiratorial and hiding the truth from the Jedi council.

Torbin is a whiny child. But after he gets mind raped how much can you blame him for his action?
Sol has a creepy emotional attachment to Osha.
Both are clearly not living up to the Jedi ideal of stoic warrior monks.

It's very ironic because the show perpetuates traditional gender stereotypes and advocates for them.
It's in a way a anti-woke message.

What the show is conveying is that if the men were more stoic and less emotional and the women less deceitful and conniving than everything would be fine.


4)

What streaming charts?

The latest Reelgood streaming charts for the weeks of June 27 - July 17, 2024, reveal that The Acolyte continues to capture viewers'

Acording to "Reelgood". So so.

Reelgood define "engagement" as an aggregation of user interactions with titles across Reelgood platforms, including playbacks, tracking, and other interactions.
Reelgood has "Streaming and Engagement Index". :lol:
What does that remind us of? :whistle:
Why are they not using data from the Nielsen charts?


"The Acolyte" is the worst performing Disney+ Star Wars show:
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1) This whole Lightsaber bleeding thing is an attempt at Harry Potterisation of Star Wars.

It's a very Harry Potter-esque.
They want to give force users a connection to their Lightsabers like Wizards have to their wands.
They? Who's they? The idea of lightsabers changing color because of light-side vs dark-side affiliation goes back at least to the 2011 novel Riptide by Paul S. Kemp (see cleansing), which predates the Disney acquisition of Lucasfilm. It figures prominently in the 2016 novel Ahsoka by E. K. Johnston, to explain the origin of her white lightsabers, and it occurs in several other tie-in publications, including the 2017 Darth Vader comic series.

2) This is now the second time that in a mainline entry for Disney Star Wars we see this weird perverted trope of female erotic fiction that a women falls in love with a (mass) murderer (Rey and Kylo Ren in the Disney prequel trilogy. We also see this in other IPs. Lord of the Rings The Rings of Power is shipping of Galadriel and Sauron).
If you're going to keep track of shit like this, why don't you also count the time Padmé Amidala fell in love with and married confessed mass-murderer Anakin Skywalker, way back in Star Wars: Episode II – Attack of the Clones (2002), written by George Lucas and Jonathan Hales? That was way before the Disney acquisition.
 
They? Who's they?

It's not an unreasonable inference given that Disney-LucasFilm have reacted to the success of Harry Potter in other ways, via a vis Star Wars. The entirety of Galaxy's Edge is their attempt to match Universal's Wizarding World, after losing out on the opportunity to secure the Potter rights themselves.
 
It's not an unreasonable inference given that Disney-LucasFilm have reacted to the success of Harry Potter in other ways, via a vis Star Wars. The entirety of Galaxy's Edge is their attempt to match Universal's Wizarding World, after losing out on the opportunity to secure the Potter rights themselves.
If it's reasonable, then it has to be able to accommodate the facts, including the fact that cleansing has been a part of the franchise for over a decade and considered canonical for eight years, now, and bleeding has been canonical for seven years. If this is a part of the "Harry Potterization" of Star Wars, then it's been going for at least seven or eight years, longer even than The Acolyte has been in production and before Galaxy's Edge opened (in 2019).
 
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They? Who's they?

Lucasfilm / Disney


The idea of lightsabers changing color because of light-side vs dark-side affiliation goes back at least to the 2011 novel Riptide by Paul S. Kemp (see cleansing), which predates the Disney acquisition of Lucasfilm. It figures prominently in the 2016 novel Ahsoka by E. K. Johnston, to explain the origin of her white lightsabers, and it occurs in several other tie-in publications, including the 2017 Darth Vader comic series.

Yes. The concept of Lightsabers as mood rings was introduced after the hype of the Harry Potter books and movies and when Disney took over they doubled down on the concept and introduced Lightsaber bleeding.


If you're going to keep track of shit like this, why don't you also count the time Padmé Amidala fell in love with and married confessed mass-murderer Anakin Skywalker, way back in Star Wars: Episode II – Attack of the Clones (2002), written by George Lucas and Jonathan Hales? That was way before the Disney acquisition.

1) Knowing the plot of movies and TV shows is "keeping track"? What are you trying to imply?
2) I never said that I liked the romance arc in EP2/3.
3) It's different situation. Padme fell in love with Anakin before he was a murderer. In sequel Trilogy and The Acolyte the women fall in love with murderers.
 
That happened in second half of EP2. They fell in love before that (on Naboo).
The film is pretty explicit that Padmé says she's not yet in love with Anakin when they leave Naboo. She proclaims her love only when she and Anakin were about to be led into the arena on Geonosis. The exact moment when she falls in love with Anakin is not stated in the film, but the time when Anakin confesses that he's a mass murderer falls between the time she says she's not in love with him and when she says that she is. It's undeniable that they get married after she knows his history as a mass murder, when she still has plenty of time to choose otherwise, if she finds it objectionable.

---

Even assuming that lightsabers changing colors is a response to Harry Potter or was influenced by Harry Potter, and that has hardly been proven, adopting a single trope that has been employed in the Harry Potter works would not even remotely constitute "Harry Potterization", and regarding it as being the case is hyperbolic in the extreme. Do the evident allusions of Ahsoka's ascension to Gandalf's ascension constitute "Tolkienization"? They do not. The existence of allusions does not imply slavish imitation. Star Wars has always been a pastiche of numerous sources in all genres. There's no reason why that ought to change or even why Star Wars should cease accreting new influences.
 
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The concept of a lightsaber blade changing color goes back to at least when Revenge of the Sith was in production. George Lucas considered having Anakin's lightsaber turn red after his fall, but the red blade kept getting lost in the background of the Mustafar scenes. Although in retrospect it's good that he didn't go through with it, since then he would have needed to explain why the blade was blue again in A New Hope, unless you want to further Special Edition-ize it by changing the blade to white and explaining that Obi-Wan healed the kyber crystal. I'm sure that would go over well. :lol:

I like this concept way better than how red lightsabers were made in Legends. The Jedi, ideally, are about freedom and diversity, so it makes sense that they would have a variety of lightsaber colors from bonding with the living kyber crystals. The Sith are about control and imposing their will on others, so it makes sense that all of their lightsabers look the same, and that they're created by dominating a kyber crystal and taking away its agency. It adds a sense of mysticism to ligthsabers and is far more interesting than just putting a green crystal in the hilt because you want a green blade.
 
There have been some suggestions that color changing lightsabers might have been a concept since Return of the Jedi, with the idea that Vader holding Luke's green lightsaber was supposed to turn red when he turned it on. It is unclear if this idea was changed, if the FX team didn't get the memo, or if it was thought the idea would confuse the audience. Might have been dropped while it was decided to change Luke's lightsaber to green due to losing it in the Tatooine sky while it was artic blue.
 
The concept of a lightsaber blade changing color goes back to at least when Revenge of the Sith was in production. George Lucas considered having Anakin's lightsaber turn red after his fall, but the red blade kept getting lost in the background of the Mustafar scenes.

There have been some suggestions that color changing lightsabers might have been a concept since Return of the Jedi, with the idea that Vader holding Luke's green lightsaber was supposed to turn red when he turned it on.

Do either of you have links for more information?
 
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