Swearing in Star Trek - Steve Shives

[Tuskin38]

I have to agree with everything he said. Swearing in Trek isn't new. It's the exact words are a bit harsher? Sure, but don't dismiss the previous swearing in the franchise.

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Also I completely forgot about the uses of 'Fuck' in Picard outside of the Admiral's scenes. I don't remember Agnes and Rios saying the word at all lol

 

[Dukhat]

There’s a difference between swearing because it fits the scene, and swearing just for the sake of swearing. In Admiral Pottymouth’s case, it’s definitely the latter. There was no real reason why she had to say the f-bomb other than it was CBS-AA and she could, which the writers wouldn’t have been able to have her say had PIC been on network tv.

 

[fireproof78]

I agree with most of what he said, largely that there is a selective remembering of Trek in terms of swearing and that people's use of "fuck" in current shows is a reflect of the time its airing, not the world of Trek.

I also think that Picard's use of "fuck" works the best of the examples presented. Tilly's is good, but Picard's is far more human. Admiral Clancy is direct and to the point, and adds that extra emphasis to get that point across. Unnecessary? Most swearing is unnecessary, but it is very relatable.

Decent video over all.

 

[Tuskin38]

There’s a difference between swearing because it fits the scene, and swearing just for the sake of swearing. In Admiral Pottymouth’s case, it’s definitely the latter. There was no real reason why she had to say the f-bomb other than it was CBS-AA and she could, which the writers wouldn’t have been able to have her say had PIC been on network tv.

Her swearing makes sense in the context to me.

 

[fireproof78]

Her swearing makes sense in the context to me.

Same here, but I doubt this disagreement will be settled here. Largely because I think, as Steve notes, there is a lack of context. People recall Clancy saying "sheer fucking hubris" to the greatest captain ever...and that's it. The context is cut out from most reviews, isolating it away to show how terrible the admiral, and new Star Trek, is.

Context: not just for kings any more.

 

[Dukhat]

The problem with the scene as written is that Clancy is actually the one in the right. Except…the audience is not supposed to be rooting for her, they’re supposed to be rooting for Picard.
So how does one make Clancy out to be the bitch in this scene, even though she has every reason to be miffed at Picard for basically shitting on Starfleet on live television? Give her a potty mouth. Have her drop the f-bomb in each scene that she’s in. Just make her artificially unlikeable so that Picard’s actual wrongdoing is glossed over, because, you know, he’s supposed to be the hero of this show.

 

[fireproof78]

That's why it works for me-what is expected to happen and Picard treated as right is not the actual scene. That is very effective juxtaposition and a reflection that "No, Picard, you are not right right now."

I don't think she is artificially unlikable-I think she is unlikable, but still right.

 

[oldtrekkie]

I agree with most of what he said, largely that there is a selective remembering of Trek in terms of swearing and that people's use of "fuck" in current shows is a reflect of the time its airing, not the world of Trek.

I also think that Picard's use of "fuck" works the best of the examples presented. Tilly's is good, but Picard's is far more human. Admiral Clancy is direct and to the point, and adds that extra emphasis to get that point across. Unnecessary? Most swearing is unnecessary, but it is very relatable.

Decent video over all.

Yeah, why should she have any respect for Picard? After all, he only prevented Earth from being assimilated by the Borg... twice.

 

[fireproof78]

Yeah, why should she have any respect for Picard? After all, he only prevented Earth from being assimilated by the Borg... twice.

And then he threw Starfleet under the bus and walked away. Past heroic acts don't negate recent events.

 

[1001001]

 

[oldtrekkie]

And then he threw Starfleet under the bus and walked away. Past heroic acts don't negate recent events.

Call me crazy but I think that saving this planet even once (something that to this day no one has ever done) should earn you a lifetime of respect, especially from paper-pushing Admirals who never came close to do anything like that.

 

[Tuskin38]

Call me crazy but I think that saving this planet even once (something that to this day no one has ever done) should earn you a lifetime of respect, especially from paper-pushing Admirals who never came close to do anything like that.

He's a person, not a god. Just because he saved a planet doesn't excuse other events.

 

[fireproof78]

Call me crazy but I think that saving this planet even once (something that to this day no one has ever done) should earn you a lifetime of respect, especially from paper-pushing Admirals who never came close to do anything like that.

That's a ridiculous assumption. Both that Clancy has never done anything heroic, or that Picard's recent behaviors would not influence those opinions.

 

[Dukhat]

He's a person, not a god. Just because he saved a planet doesn't excuse other events.

Yet that’s exactly what happened to Kirk at the end of The Voyage Home.

Re: Picard’s past actions: despite my above post, I also agree that Picard’s past actions shouldn’t influence his present actions. But the admiral’s response to Picard was clearly written so as to make the audience hate her and immediately side with Picard, even though Picard was actually the one in the wrong.

 

[Kor]

The harsher swearing in CBS Trek just comes off as awkward to me, like a little kid who has just learned swear words for the first time and makes a point to throw these words around just to sound cool or more grown up.

Kor

 

[cooleddie74]

Admiral Clancy's swearing made sense.

Humans in 2399 aren't going to be that much different from humans in 2021. Her swearing was more organic than Tilly's in DSC and even hers didn't really bother me.

 

[Tuskin38]

The harsher swearing in CBS Trek just comes off as awkward to me, like a little kid who has just learned swear words for the first time and makes a point to throw these words around just to sound cool or more grown up.

Kor

I'd agree with you if it happened all the time. But the F word was only used twice in Discovery, 2 seasons apart, and 4 times in Picard (two of those times I forgot happened, they weren't as memorable as Clancy's.)

And the use in Lower Decks is part of the comedy, which is why it's bleeped.

 

[fireproof78]

Admiral Clancy's swearing made sense.

Humans in 2399 aren't going to be that much different from humans in 2021. Her swearing was more organic than Tilly's in DSC and even hers didn't really bother me.

Exactly so.

 

[Leathco]

I usually disagree with many of Steves views, and this is another time I disagree. If it fits in the context of the plot, I have no problem with it (Data's "Oh shit" in Generations for example). Tillys even felt sort of natural, like she slipped up and let it out, and I was mostly OK with that. It felt a little forced, but hey that's fine. The admiral in Picard though? Felt totally forced and like they did it to push lines instead of it fitting into the plot.

 

[Tuskin38]

The admiral in Picard though? Felt totally forced and like they did it to push lines instead of it fitting into the plot.

I have to disagree, it makes sense in context. Picard was being an arrogant ass in that scene.