Spoilers "Superman & Lois" Season 1 spoiler discussion!

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by The Realist, Feb 22, 2021.

  1. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    This was a terrific Lois episode, really letting her character shine. It showed so many facets of her and captured her so well, and Tulloch did a fantastic job. We learned so much about her history and relationships in this continuity, and even though we saw her at her most vulnerable, she also came through and saved the day when Superman couldn't. Really great stuff.

    It is surprising that the DOD just let Irons go. Also, it's odd that the writers changed his niece Natasha to a daughter named Natalie.

    It just struck me that it would be cool if they'd gotten Katie McGrath to record the "Captain Luthor" A.I.'s voice. Or Andrea Brooks or Brenda Strong or Rhona Mitra (Mercy Graves) -- someone associated with Lex. It would be a nice bit of subtle continuity, something they wouldn't even have to call attention to but would just be there as an Easter egg. They can't mix the casts and crews physically because of COVID restrictions, but for a voice role, that wouldn't be an issue.


    I don't think that's true. When Lex used kryptonite on her before banishing her to the Phantom Zone, she was weakened but still conscious. And when her teen self had kryptonite shards embedded in her fist in the recent time-travel episodes, she lost her powers but was conscious and mobile.

    The inconsistency is that Superman didn't get the "green veins" effect that Supergirl does when she's exposed to kryptonite. I wish the shows' effects teams would coordinate more.
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2021
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  2. Ryan Thomas Riddle

    Ryan Thomas Riddle Writer and occasional starship commander Premium Member

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    Superman and Lois is fast becoming my favorite iteration of Superman. The show is doing well what the comics never got a good handle on — showing Lois and Clark as a married couple and parents with real world problems in the midst of the fantastical.

    Tulloch is the most reportery Lois since Phyllis Coates and Margot Kidder. Hoechlin is surpassing Christopher Reeve in the role. He Clarks and Supermans so hard. The teens feel like real teens and not TV teens. And there's a nice balance between the teen and adult stories.

    But I also like that they have both Lois and Clark grapple with emotional problems as well as the usual super hero theatrics. This last episode was a fantastic example of that. Tulloch is an amazing actress and brings so many layers to her Lois.

    I know this show is connected to the larger Arrowverse but I like that it's mostly self-contained. For me, this lets the show stand on its own as a Superman show... not part of some larger shared universe.
     
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  3. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    I liked how true they were to themselves. Lois gets mad and chews out her son, Clark disapproves but keeps it gentle and diplomatic, "Don't you think you were maybe a tiny bit hard on him?"


    It deserves room to establish its own voice, but I would like to see a bit more continuity, like keeping the visual effects consistent and making allusions to things we've seen before. As I said, they could've cast a familiar Supergirl actress as the voice of Captain Luthor's AI without calling any attention to the fact, so it'd have no effect on the stories but would just be a nice continuity touch for those who noticed it. Or, when talking about the possibility of Kryptonians invading, they could have a throwaway nod to something similar happening with the Fort Rozz inmates years before, or mention how the loss of the DEO makes it harder to cope with the threat (although Legends did a more comedic version of that beat in its season premiere).
     
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  4. Mr. Adventure

    Mr. Adventure Admiral Admiral

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    I'm happy thinking that until the issue is eventually forced. Already it seems odd that General Lane and Irons aren't concerned about Supergirl. Have the Kents told the boys about cousin Kara? There are 100s of metas and aliens running around on this earth?

    This is where I think Marvel has done a good job because it feels like a coherent world for the most part. The characters may not all interact with each other but it feels like they are all playing out in the same world. If anything, Stargirl would be a more natural fit with S&L than the other shows.
     
  5. TREK_GOD_1

    TREK_GOD_1 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    This is a point some still do not quite understand about the series; this may as well be an Elseworlds show, as its not about the younger, competing-at-the-Daily-Planet Clark and Lois (or other Arrowverse goings-on), but a husband and wife who have aged, and moved into a stage of life that affords writers the drama of domestic life you will not necessarily get with characters just starting out. his really sets it apart from the series its most related to, and unless some guest appearance from say, a Kara presents her as older, and settled in life too (or a flashback tied to the end of her series), the characters of S&L are too far removed in tone, purpose and execution from the rest.
     
  6. Serveaux

    Serveaux Boomer American Premium Member

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    Coates, maybe. Amy Adams does more work during movie credits than Kidder did in whole movies. Her whole job was to do something daft and dangerous for Reeve to haul her out of.

    I'd rank them Tulloch, Adams and Neill, the last for sentimental reasons. Then Coates, and none of the others really place.

    This. I got bored with the Arrowverse in record time - a couple of seasons; the shows are superficially written, gimmicky, lachrymose enough for most of the characters to be swapped in to STD, and they look cheap. I wanna watch a Superman show without ever having to think about the others.
     
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  7. marillion

    marillion Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I thought this was a different Earth than the one portrayed in Supergirl. That said, the whole crisis thing got confusing for me in the end.
     
  8. JD

    JD Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    That's really not an excuse, plenty of series with drastically different tones in shared universes still manage to work in appearances and references with out any issues. Just look at the comics, which cover just about ever style, tone, and genre out there, and still manage to work in references to other series and have characters crossover.
     
  9. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    You're only confused, because you assume it should make sense.

    It doesn't.
     
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  10. Serveaux

    Serveaux Boomer American Premium Member

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    Exactly.

    Let the Arrowverse worry about the Arrowverse, and let Lois and Clark take care of themselves.
     
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  11. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    There's going to be a cross over, and the "visionary" behind this new aesthetic is going to face a reckoning trying to coincide Barry's chipmunk-like optimism with this dark world.

    Come to think of it, current Supergirl and Flash are way darker than 6 years ago.
     
  12. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Nope, all the DC shows on The CW (except Stargirl, which originated elsewhere) are the same universe now, which was basically the point of Crisis, though they haven't managed to do much with it yet. This show is just trying to stand on its own and establish a distinct voice and storyline because it's new. Which is a good way to do it -- start off defining the show's own identity, then wait until later to do the crossovers. (And we do know at least one major crossover element is coming, i.e. a John Diggle guest appearance.)


    They've said in interviews that they've looked for opportunities to include continuity nods, but they haven't found a good place for it yet, a place where it fit in organically without getting in the way. The first priority should be the story you're telling. References to outside stuff are just a bonus.
     
  13. JD

    JD Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I can understand not wanting to get bogged down in the wider Arrowverse, but it does seem a bit strange that they haven't worked in some kind of references to Kara at least.
     
  14. The Realist

    The Realist Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I have an affection for all the live-action Loises (yes, even Bosworth, whose greatest sin was simply being ridiculously young for the role), but I agree with your top two choices. Tulloch has pulled just ahead of the exemplary Adams for me, if only by virtue of having more screen time to develop the character and display more sides and shadings of her.

    The thing is, while it's a dicey proposition to attempt to make Superman too "realistic," I think Lois benefits from it. In some ways, she's the personification of Clark's bond with humanity, so the more human she is the better.

    Lois Lane can, superficially, be treated as a collection of character traits and tics -- aggressive, fearless, etc. But if her characterization leans too hard into that stuff, it risks becoming parody. Kidder was a little like this. Don't get me wrong, I adore her, and she's perfect for the tone and style of the Reeve movies. But I find I prefer the Adams/Tulloch approach of grounding those traits in what feels more like a real, whole person.
     
  15. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Clark loves Lois because she can't spell.

    Slumming it with humans.
     
  16. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Again, they say they've looked for opportunities (and actually filmed a shot of a photo of Clark, Lois, Kara on Lois's desk at the Planet), but they've fallen prey to editing or story needs. It's not arbitrary.
     
  17. crookeddy

    crookeddy Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Slight increase in overall viewership but devastating 37.5% drop in the demo. This show has no future in its current form.
     
  18. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk Cartoon Premium Member

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    Sure.
     
  19. Snaploud

    Snaploud Admiral Admiral

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    Television ratings are largely meaningless for a show that streams extended editions online for free with forced advertisements.
     
  20. The Realist

    The Realist Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Which I just finished watching, to see the extra/extended scenes, so there's my contribution.

    Somebody noted on another site that this episode "shows why civilians matter in superhero drama," and I think that observation is on the money. I've complained before about the tendency in the Arrowverse shows to have everybody and their barber eventually become yet another code-named costumed goober. It shows a real dearth of creativity and imagination that they can't find any way for "ordinary" people to be important narratively, but this show is demonstrating how effectively and successfully that can be done.