Spoilers "Superman & Lois" Season 1 spoiler discussion!

[Christopher]

But I also like that they have both Lois and Clark grapple with emotional problems as well as the usual super hero theatrics. This last episode was a fantastic example of that. Tulloch is an amazing actress and brings so many layers to her Lois.

I liked how true they were to themselves. Lois gets mad and chews out her son, Clark disapproves but keeps it gentle and diplomatic, "Don't you think you were maybe a tiny bit hard on him?"

I know this show is connected to the larger Arrowverse but I like that it's mostly self-contained. For me, this lets the show stand on its own as a Superman show... not part of some larger shared universe.

It deserves room to establish its own voice, but I would like to see a bit more continuity, like keeping the visual effects consistent and making allusions to things we've seen before. As I said, they could've cast a familiar Supergirl actress as the voice of Captain Luthor's AI without calling any attention to the fact, so it'd have no effect on the stories but would just be a nice continuity touch for those who noticed it. Or, when talking about the possibility of Kryptonians invading, they could have a throwaway nod to something similar happening with the Fort Rozz inmates years before, or mention how the loss of the DEO makes it harder to cope with the threat (although Legends did a more comedic version of that beat in its season premiere).

 

[Mr. Adventure]

I know this show is connected to the larger Arrowverse but I like that it's mostly self-contained. For me, this lets the show stand on its own as a Superman show... not part of some larger shared universe.

I'm happy thinking that until the issue is eventually forced. Already it seems odd that General Lane and Irons aren't concerned about Supergirl. Have the Kents told the boys about cousin Kara? There are 100s of metas and aliens running around on this earth?

This is where I think Marvel has done a good job because it feels like a coherent world for the most part. The characters may not all interact with each other but it feels like they are all playing out in the same world. If anything, Stargirl would be a more natural fit with S&L than the other shows.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

But I also like that they have both Lois and Clark grapple with emotional problems as well as the usual super hero theatrics. This last episode was a fantastic example of that. Tulloch is an amazing actress and brings so many layers to her Lois.

I know this show is connected to the larger Arrowverse but I like that it's mostly self-contained. For me, this lets the show stand on its own as a Superman show... not part of some larger shared universe.

This is a point some still do not quite understand about the series; this may as well be an Elseworlds show, as its not about the younger, competing-at-the-Daily-Planet Clark and Lois (or other Arrowverse goings-on), but a husband and wife who have aged, and moved into a stage of life that affords writers the drama of domestic life you will not necessarily get with characters just starting out. his really sets it apart from the series its most related to, and unless some guest appearance from say, a Kara presents her as older, and settled in life too (or a flashback tied to the end of her series), the characters of S&L are too far removed in tone, purpose and execution from the rest.

 

[Mudd]

Superman and Lois is fast becoming my favorite iteration of Superman. The show is doing well what the comics never got a good handle on — showing Lois and Clark as a married couple and parents with real world problems in the midst of the fantastical.

Tulloch is the most reportery Lois since Phyllis Coates and Margot Kidder.

Coates, maybe. Amy Adams does more work during movie credits than Kidder did in whole movies. Her whole job was to do something daft and dangerous for Reeve to haul her out of.

I'd rank them Tulloch, Adams and Neill, the last for sentimental reasons. Then Coates, and none of the others really place.

I know this show is connected to the larger Arrowverse but I like that it's mostly self-contained. For me, this lets the show stand on its own as a Superman show... not part of some larger shared universe.

This. I got bored with the Arrowverse in record time - a couple of seasons; the shows are superficially written, gimmicky, lachrymose enough for most of the characters to be swapped in to STD, and they look cheap. I wanna watch a Superman show without ever having to think about the others.

 

[marillion]

I'm happy thinking that until the issue is eventually forced. Already it seems odd that General Lane and Irons aren't concerned about Supergirl. Have the Kents told the boys about cousin Kara? There are 100s of metas and aliens running around on this earth?

This is where I think Marvel has done a good job because it feels like a coherent world for the most part. The characters may not all interact with each other but it feels like they are all playing out in the same world. If anything, Stargirl would be a more natural fit with S&L than the other shows.

I thought this was a different Earth than the one portrayed in Supergirl. That said, the whole crisis thing got confusing for me in the end.

 

[JD]

That's really not an excuse, plenty of series with drastically different tones in shared universes still manage to work in appearances and references with out any issues. Just look at the comics, which cover just about ever style, tone, and genre out there, and still manage to work in references to other series and have characters crossover.

 

[Guy Gardener]

I thought this was a different Earth than the one portrayed in Supergirl. That said, the whole crisis thing got confusing for me in the end.

You're only confused, because you assume it should make sense.

It doesn't.

 

[Mudd]

You're only confused, because you assume it should make sense.

It doesn't.

Exactly.

Let the Arrowverse worry about the Arrowverse, and let Lois and Clark take care of themselves.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Exactly.

Let the Arrowverse worry about the Arrowverse, and let Lois and Clark take care of themselves.

There's going to be a cross over, and the "visionary" behind this new aesthetic is going to face a reckoning trying to coincide Barry's chipmunk-like optimism with this dark world.

Come to think of it, current Supergirl and Flash are way darker than 6 years ago.

 

[Christopher]

I thought this was a different Earth than the one portrayed in Supergirl. That said, the whole crisis thing got confusing for me in the end.

Nope, all the DC shows on The CW (except Stargirl, which originated elsewhere) are the same universe now, which was basically the point of Crisis, though they haven't managed to do much with it yet. This show is just trying to stand on its own and establish a distinct voice and storyline because it's new. Which is a good way to do it -- start off defining the show's own identity, then wait until later to do the crossovers. (And we do know at least one major crossover element is coming, i.e. a John Diggle guest appearance.)

That's really not an excuse, plenty of series with drastically different tones in shared universes still manage to work in appearances and references with out any issues. Just look at the comics, which cover just about ever style, tone, and genre out there, and still manage to work in references to other series and have characters crossover.

They've said in interviews that they've looked for opportunities to include continuity nods, but they haven't found a good place for it yet, a place where it fit in organically without getting in the way. The first priority should be the story you're telling. References to outside stuff are just a bonus.

 

[JD]

I can understand not wanting to get bogged down in the wider Arrowverse, but it does seem a bit strange that they haven't worked in some kind of references to Kara at least.

 

[The Realist]

I'd rank them Tulloch, Adams and Neill, the last for sentimental reasons. Then Coates, and none of the others really place.

I have an affection for all the live-action Loises (yes, even Bosworth, whose greatest sin was simply being ridiculously young for the role), but I agree with your top two choices. Tulloch has pulled just ahead of the exemplary Adams for me, if only by virtue of having more screen time to develop the character and display more sides and shadings of her.

The thing is, while it's a dicey proposition to attempt to make Superman too "realistic," I think Lois benefits from it. In some ways, she's the personification of Clark's bond with humanity, so the more human she is the better.

Lois Lane can, superficially, be treated as a collection of character traits and tics -- aggressive, fearless, etc. But if her characterization leans too hard into that stuff, it risks becoming parody. Kidder was a little like this. Don't get me wrong, I adore her, and she's perfect for the tone and style of the Reeve movies. But I find I prefer the Adams/Tulloch approach of grounding those traits in what feels more like a real, whole person.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Clark loves Lois because she can't spell.

Slumming it with humans.

 

[Christopher]

I can understand not wanting to get bogged down in the wider Arrowverse, but it does seem a bit strange that they haven't worked in some kind of references to Kara at least.

Again, they say they've looked for opportunities (and actually filmed a shot of a photo of Clark, Lois, Kara on Lois's desk at the Planet), but they've fallen prey to editing or story needs. It's not arbitrary.

 

[crookeddy]

Slight increase in overall viewership but devastating 37.5% drop in the demo. This show has no future in its current form.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Slight increase in overall viewership but devastating 37.5% drop in the demo. This show has no future in its current form.

Sure.

 

[Snaploud]

Television ratings are largely meaningless for a show that streams extended editions online for free with forced advertisements.

 

[The Realist]

Television ratings are largely meaningless for a show that streams extended editions online for free with forced advertisements.

Which I just finished watching, to see the extra/extended scenes, so there's my contribution.

Somebody noted on another site that this episode "shows why civilians matter in superhero drama," and I think that observation is on the money. I've complained before about the tendency in the Arrowverse shows to have everybody and their barber eventually become yet another code-named costumed goober. It shows a real dearth of creativity and imagination that they can't find any way for "ordinary" people to be important narratively, but this show is demonstrating how effectively and successfully that can be done.

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

Again, they say they've looked for opportunities (and actually filmed a shot of a photo of Clark, Lois, Kara on Lois's desk at the Planet), but they've fallen prey to editing or story needs. It's not arbitrary.

Kara does get a mention in the pilot script.

GENERAL LANE (CONT'D) ​

It's a message in a language only two known beings on Earth can read or write. And I don't think this is a post-it note from Supergirl.
​

 

[The Realist]

^ I'm not sure how much I buy Helbing's claims that it's been mere happenstance that they've eliminated any references to Supergirl and the other Arrowverse shows. Certainly a throwaway line like that wouldn't be obtrusive or time-consuming. In fact, it's more noticeable when they avoid any acknowledgment of Kara's existence where her name might logically come up, like at Martha's funeral or in connection with Clark's revelation of his identity to his sons. (Wouldn't "Does that mean Aunt Kara is Supergirl?" be a reasonable question to ask?)

I think they're deliberately distancing S&L from the other shows, but that is actually fine by me. The show stands very well on its own without any Arrowverse fanservice clutter. A reference here and there might be fun, but it's not really necessary, especially if it undercuts the series' unique tone and identity.