Spoilers Superman (2025) Grade and Discussion

[Mr. Adventure]

I’m not sure backing dude into a cactus qualifies as torture. As far as Hawkgirl goes? She’s from a different world with different values and she handled the leader based on those values. Much like Worf handled Duras based on Klingon cultural values.

I guess I don't know what the cut-off for that is. "Torture" may be hyperbole but powerful figure in authority intentionally using pain on someone helpless in custody. And Superman did commit the Justice Gang to the cause knowing how they handle things and their indifference to the situation. From a meta standpoint, Gunn combining the two gave me an uneasy feeling but maybe that was the idea. I'm possibly oversensitive with recent events and the cavalier attitude some have toward the treatment of othered people in real life.

And we're are talking about a guy who will go out of his way to save a squirrel here lol.

 

[Grendelsbayne]

I’m not sure backing dude into a cactus qualifies as torture. As far as Hawkgirl goes? She’s from a different world with different values and she handled the leader based on those values. Much like Worf handled Duras based on Klingon cultural values.

It's perfectly reasonable in terms of her characterization. The thing is, though, this isn't a Hawkgirl movie. And it's not even just a Superman movie, either, it's specifically a Superman movie the entire central theme of which is that Superman is so good and pure of heart that he'll try to save literally everyone, even kaiju or squirrels (or people he's theoretically not supposed to save because mixing superhumans and geopolitics is scary). And the movie then sets up the Justice Gang and especially Hawkgirl as being won over to his side and functionally makes them his proxies in Jarhanpur specifically to show he's winning hearts and minds to his heroic pov.

And then not 5 minutes later Hawkgirl straight up murders an obviously defenseless elderly man. He maybe deserved it and she was believably in character, but there was just no need for that to be shown in this movie right in the middle of Superman's philosophical triumph.

 

[BillJ]

And then not 5 minutes later Hawkgirl straight up murders an obviously defenseless elderly man. He maybe deserved it and she was believably in character, but there was just no need for that to be shown in this movie right in the middle of Superman's philosophical triumph.

I see it as cost of triumph.

 

[Turtletrekker]

There have been so many interviews with James Gunn since this movie was released, but I am pretty sure I have heard him say that there will be consequences to what Hawkgirl did in this movie.

 

[Commander Troi]

Yes. He mentioned it on the Peacemaker podcast for S2 E1 too.

 

[Guy Gardener]

There have been so many interviews with James Gunn since this movie was released, but I am pretty sure I have heard him say that there will be consequences to what Hawkgirl did in this movie.

%90 Tariffs on Thanagarian Imports?

 

[Mudd]

I’m not sure backing dude into a cactus qualifies as torture. As far as Hawkgirl goes? She’s from a different world with different values and she handled the leader based on those values. Much like Worf handled Duras based on Klingon cultural values.

Bullshit. He just pissed her off.

 

[BillJ]

Bullshit. He just pissed her off.

I tend to like this reasoning better, but people want deep meaningful explanations.

 

[Grendelsbayne]

There have been so many interviews with James Gunn since this movie was released, but I am pretty sure I have heard him say that there will be consequences to what Hawkgirl did in this movie.

I kind of figured that anyway. It still doesn't change the fact that it undermines the theme of the movie it's in.

And, honestly, if the goal is to build towards this more fundamental philosophical rift between Superman's way and the Authority's way with some of Superman's friends not on his side - and that very definitely seems to be the case - the entire concept would hit harder if you let the audience believe at least for a while that Superman had actually fully convinced them all to try it his way. You can still reveal she killed the guy in a future movie. You'd get the exact same storyline but with more dramatic engagement and without making this movie step on it's own toes.

 

[Guy Gardener]

I kind of figured that anyway. It still doesn't change the fact that it undermines the theme of the movie it's in.

And, honestly, if the goal is to build towards this more fundamental philosophical rift between Superman's way and the Authority's way with some of Superman's friends not on his side - and that very definitely seems to be the case - the entire concept would hit harder if you let the audience believe at least for a while that Superman had actually fully convinced them all to try it his way. You can still reveal she killed the guy in a future movie. You'd get the exact same storyline but with more dramatic engagement and without making this movie step on it's own toes.

Do the Justice Gang have a licence to kill?

It's not just an ethical problem.

Killing that Kaiju, is animal cruelty, and at the very least, P.E.T.A. Is coming for them.

Lex Luthor was right, if these people think they are above the law, then Earth has a problem with their vigilantism.

Did Luthor know Hawkgirl is an Alien, or is there a some sexist double standard in play where she gets a pass just because Lex thinks that all girls operate on a different wave length?

 

[Starkers]

-- I can't be the only one watching this who thought of Black Noir, right?

Nope!

 

[Nerys Myk]

I thought "Doomsday".

 

[Starkers]

Nope!

Just to clarify I meant nope as in you're not the only one to think of Black Noir because I did!

 

[BillJ]

Superman already knows that the Justice Gang works with different values than he does. We saw that in play with the kaiju.

 

[Turtletrekker]

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[Ovation]

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Meh.

 

[Kai "the spy"]

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Meh.

Very meh. Yeah, on a technical level it might be impressive, but as a concept, it boils down to nothing more than a physical brawl.

This one was way better:

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[Turtletrekker]

I thought that it presented a good message to the fans that these two versions of the character don't have to be in conflict. That they can both coexist.

 

[Kai "the spy"]

That is an interesting interpretation, considering they are literally fighting each other in that video.

 

[Mudd]

That is an interesting interpretation, considering they are literally fighting each other in that video.

Well, they were raised as Americans.

In the beginning of Marvel comics in the 60s, every superhero was virtually required to throw down against every other, the first time they met. Misunderstandings, cross-purposes. Ala Iron Man versus Thor in the first Avengers movie.

Drove sales pretty good.